MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
This is My take on a 90,000-ton Sylean Battleship. TL-12, Imperial Maximum
Milieu 0 ships updated to MgT2
- Thread starter MasterGwydion
- Start date
Oh look! A space punching ball!
Very tough armour. But it is missile dry in less than 20 combat rounds. After that it has only 7 dangerous Weapons left (Particle Beams and Meson Spinal).
In my opinion it relies too much on missiles. Yes missiles are very powerful. But why not replace some of the bays with some energy based barbettes or bays (Particle or Fusion). This would give this battleship way more breath in a long fight. You could also replace some of the missile bays with torpedo bays. At the end of a day it's a battleships job in a battle to take out other capital ships.
You could also think about some railguns when it goes to close and dirty.
Ok, I'm maybe wrong because I don't know what these fabricators do. Where do you have them from? If they produce ammunition at a reasonable rate. Then it changes a lot.
All in All it is not a bad ship, but it is not a battleship (in my opinion). Battleships don't have to be fast. Their main abilities are endurance (in battle), firepower and force projection. And being a threat for not longer than 20 combat rounds isn't a good attribute for force projection. Of course a battleship should never be alone but in a longer fight there is no time (or opportunities) to get resupplies from your Supplyships.
Very tough armour. But it is missile dry in less than 20 combat rounds. After that it has only 7 dangerous Weapons left (Particle Beams and Meson Spinal).
In my opinion it relies too much on missiles. Yes missiles are very powerful. But why not replace some of the bays with some energy based barbettes or bays (Particle or Fusion). This would give this battleship way more breath in a long fight. You could also replace some of the missile bays with torpedo bays. At the end of a day it's a battleships job in a battle to take out other capital ships.
You could also think about some railguns when it goes to close and dirty.
Ok, I'm maybe wrong because I don't know what these fabricators do. Where do you have them from? If they produce ammunition at a reasonable rate. Then it changes a lot.
All in All it is not a bad ship, but it is not a battleship (in my opinion). Battleships don't have to be fast. Their main abilities are endurance (in battle), firepower and force projection. And being a threat for not longer than 20 combat rounds isn't a good attribute for force projection. Of course a battleship should never be alone but in a longer fight there is no time (or opportunities) to get resupplies from your Supplyships.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Missiles work for everyone. Particle Beams and the Spinal are only good for larger ships, which mainly don't exist in the Milieu 0 setting. 90,000 tons is considered a Battleship. In 1,105, it would be considered a cruiser-class ship, barely larger than the Atlantic-Class Heavy Cruiser. Also, TL-12 is the max TL in the setting. Meson Screens are TL-13, so there is no defense against the Meson spinal for planetary bombardment. In the fluff it says that one 90,000-ton Battleship showing up over a planet is enough for most worlds to surrender without a fight.
Anything with limited ammo is a problem. Agreed. Over the last several years on this forum, torpedoes seem to have been determined as being useless as written, so now I don't include them on any ship.
They can produce ammo and missiles.
Fabricators can make missiles. 20 combat rounds 2 hours.
They are located in the CSC as well as the Robot Handbook.
Battleships do have to be fast in Traveller. Otherwise, the faster ships just stay at range and destroy them. Armor is maxed out and on a Military hull, so more armor isn't possible.
Well I don't really know what the Milieu 0 setting means tbh.
But the most important thing is that a battle ship is part of a group. Like a carrier a battleship alone is always easy prey.
I just made some suggestions to improve the ship how I would do it. Taking it into account or not is your decision. And in my opinion it is still not a battleship. It is a moderate capital ship that will fulfill its job.
In the end there is (even in reality) not a strict definition on what exactly is a battleship or not. So when its creator says "that is a battleship" than it is called a battleship even if I think "well I wouldn't call it a battleship because for me a battleship has some different specs"
That is why I recommended to replace some missile bay with other weapons. Not all of them.
90kt is a capital ship but not necessarily a battleship. If it is defined like you say in that setting ok. But with standard definition (real and traveller [High Guard p. 7]) is like I said: Heavy Armor, Heavy Weapons.
I would guess most planets without any serious defense will surrender without a fight if a large, heavy armed space ship threatens them. Even if it has "only" 20kt
But you need the material. So it gives you some more missiles but still limited and I would take a shot for "not enough to fire full salvos until material is out". At which rate do they produce missiles?
As said before battleships should never be alone. And the case you mentioned is one reason why. Also: Stay at which range? For tactics like that you need to be faster and having weapons with a longer range than the battleship with enough punch to take it out. Battleships should be design to have heavy weapons with long range so I would assume that if you can fire at the battleship it is very possible that it can fire at you too.
But the most important thing is that a battle ship is part of a group. Like a carrier a battleship alone is always easy prey.
I guess you got something wrong? I never said it needs more armour or that it has weak armour. Actually I titled its armour as tough
I just made some suggestions to improve the ship how I would do it. Taking it into account or not is your decision. And in my opinion it is still not a battleship. It is a moderate capital ship that will fulfill its job.
In the end there is (even in reality) not a strict definition on what exactly is a battleship or not. So when its creator says "that is a battleship" than it is called a battleship even if I think "well I wouldn't call it a battleship because for me a battleship has some different specs"
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Milieu 0 is Imperial Year 0. It is the founding of the Third Imperium. 1,105 years before the normal Charted Space setting. The prime enemy of the new Imperium was a nearby kingdom with like 25 worlds. Their largest common ship was an 1,100-ton Missile Corvette with all nuclear missiles. It made speed runs on planets and launched its whole compliment of nuclear missiles and then ran away. The fluff says that this is the reason why the Imperial Palace on Capital is built to resist attack.Well I don't really know what the Milieu 0 setting means tbh.
That is why I recommended to replace some missile bay with other weapons. Not all of them.
90kt is a capital ship but not necessarily a battleship. If it is defined like you say in that setting ok. But with standard definition (real and traveller [High Guard p. 7]) is like I said: Heavy Armor, Heavy Weapons.
I would guess most planets without any serious defense will surrender without a fight if a large, heavy armed space ship threatens them. Even if it has "only" 20kt
But you need the material. So it gives you some more missiles but still limited and I would take a shot for "not enough to fire full salvos until material is out". At which rate do they produce missiles?
As said before battleships should never be alone. And the case you mentioned is one reason why. Also: Stay at which range? For tactics like that you need to be faster and having weapons with a longer range than the battleship with enough punch to take it out. Battleships should be design to have heavy weapons with long range so I would assume that if you can fire at the battleship it is very possible that it can fire at you too.
But the most important thing is that a battle ship is part of a group. Like a carrier a battleship alone is always easy prey.
I guess you got something wrong? I never said it needs more armour or that it has weak armour. Actually I titled its armour as tough
I just made some suggestions to improve the ship how I would do it. Taking it into account or not is your decision. And in my opinion it is still not a battleship. It is a moderate capital ship that will fulfill its job.
In the end there is (even in reality) not a strict definition on what exactly is a battleship or not. So when its creator says "that is a battleship" than it is called a battleship even if I think "well I wouldn't call it a battleship because for me a battleship has some different specs"
Battleships as you think of them from over 1,000 years later are much bigger than the original battleships. By "modern 3I" standards 90,000 tons is a Heavy Cruiser, but not back then it wasn't.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Classic computers limited the volume they could effectively control.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Yeah, but Milieu 0 was T4, not CT, and used FFS, so this was less of an issue.
What TL are the opposition, MG? That could affect what works and what does not. I'd not totally discount torpedoes and particle bays without checking what they were designing it to fight. Obviously sole ownership of Meson guns (if that is the case) is a Big Thing when no one has meson screens.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
TL-11
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Competence counts.
Also, small meson bay available at technological level eleven.
Also, small meson bay available at technological level eleven.
Okay, so max armour 22. There's a good chance that a 6D6 torpedo salvo would work, especially nukes.
Maybe not for THIS ship, but maybe on support ones.
Large fusion bays also look pretty spicy, with 10D6 damage and AP 8, Radiation.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Keep forgetting about military armour.
New meaning behind all or nothing armour scheme.
New meaning behind all or nothing armour scheme.
boggo2300
Cosmic Mongoose
Don't forget the Rule of Man was prototype TL-14 for the Navy, and had proper Battlewagons that could compete with Third Imperium Battleships and the Sylean Navy was well aware of both Zire Sirka, and Rule of Man navies.
I mention this as the only Mileu 0 game I played in (not using T4 thankfully) involved us as the command crew of an 800 ton Sylean destroyer coming across a derelict 2I Battleship (of 200,000 tons, TL-14) and trying to get word back to Sylea so it could be salvaged without alerting anyone else to it's existance.
I mention this as the only Mileu 0 game I played in (not using T4 thankfully) involved us as the command crew of an 800 ton Sylean destroyer coming across a derelict 2I Battleship (of 200,000 tons, TL-14) and trying to get word back to Sylea so it could be salvaged without alerting anyone else to it's existance.
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Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
The author of HG either messed up big time or the retcon is deliberate.
HG 80 - meson spinal TL11, 100t meson bay TL13, 50t meson bay TL15, meson screens TL12.
MgT HG - meson spinal TL12, 200t meson bay TL13 , 100t meson bay TL12, 50t meson bay TL11, meson screen TL13
the upshot is the MgT Third Imperium is a very different paradigm to earlier iterations.
The TL11 50t meson bay - now consider what a TL14 version with three advancements looks like...
at TL11 you can now build meson bay ortillery support ships so ground troops have to contend with a meson battlefield as the norm - a 50t meson bay could be fitted to a support gunship.
I pity the grunt in the CES carrying an ACR when meson bursts are destroying the battlefield around them...
HG 80 - meson spinal TL11, 100t meson bay TL13, 50t meson bay TL15, meson screens TL12.
MgT HG - meson spinal TL12, 200t meson bay TL13 , 100t meson bay TL12, 50t meson bay TL11, meson screen TL13
the upshot is the MgT Third Imperium is a very different paradigm to earlier iterations.
The TL11 50t meson bay - now consider what a TL14 version with three advancements looks like...
at TL11 you can now build meson bay ortillery support ships so ground troops have to contend with a meson battlefield as the norm - a 50t meson bay could be fitted to a support gunship.
I pity the grunt in the CES carrying an ACR when meson bursts are destroying the battlefield around them...
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Going by the original story line, meson weapon systems are technological level twelve.
If the small bay was available at technological level eleven, the Vilani would have them.
If the small bay was available at technological level eleven, the Vilani would have them.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Sylea didn't even achieve TL-12 until 150 years before the 3rd Imperium was founded. So, to the best of My knowledge, there has never been a TL-14 "Sylean Destroyer" The 3rd Imperium didn't hit TL-14 until 700 years after the founding of the Third Imperium.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Design mechanics might allow early prototypes, but accountants may balk at the cost of research and development, let along making one.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
I am aware of no rules allowing for a TL-14 Ship Hull at TL-12. Unless someone can point out the relevant rules for Me?
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Depends on how many components are manufactured as early prototypes.
If it's practically the entire vessel, then you have performance comparable to technological level fourteen.
If it's practically the entire vessel, then you have performance comparable to technological level fourteen.
