MgT HG 2e Primitive & Advanced Weapons and mixed weapons

[snrdg121408]

Afternoon PST,

With help from the members of the forum I have, hopefully, an understanding of how the Primitive and Advanced Weapon options are applied to fixed mounts with the same weapon type, turrets with the same weapon type, barbettes, and bays.

How does one install a budget or advanced laser In a mixed fixed mount or turret?

 

[EldritchFire]

Afternoon PST,

With help from the members of the forum I have, hopefully, an understanding of how the Primitive and Advanced Weapon options are applied to fixed mounts with the same weapon type, turrets with the same weapon type, barbettes, and bays.

How does one install a budget or advanced laser In a mixed fixed mount or turret?

For either one, as long as all weapons of the same type have the same options taken, it's no different then normal. Just know that the size reduction/increased size options are not available for fixed mounts, since there is no tonnage consumed.

 

[DivineWrath]

The book says that if using a turret of mixed weapons, you have to pick and choose which weapons you use. For example, a mixed turret might 1 sand caster and 2 beam lasers. That turret could only fire 1 sandcaster or up to 2 beam lasers, not both sand casters and beam lasers in the same turn.

I would rule something similar would apply to primitive and advanced weapons. I would rule that either you treat similar weapons as weapons of the worst type (so that all become inaccurate if one is inaccurate), or you pick and choose which weapons to that fit your needs. Having 1 beam laser with long range or accurate does not make the other more primitive beam laser weapons long range or accurate.

I would make exception to things like increased power consumption or increased size. They don't affect the combat stats of a weapon.

 

[snrdg121408]

Evening EldritchFire and DivineWrath,

Afternoon PST,

With help from the members of the forum I have, hopefully, an understanding of how the Primitive and Advanced Weapon options are applied to fixed mounts with the same weapon type, turrets with the same weapon type, barbettes, and bays.

How does one install a budget or advanced laser In a mixed fixed mount or turret?

For either one, as long as all weapons of the same type have the same options taken, it's no different then normal. Just know that the size reduction/increased size options are not available for fixed mounts, since there is no tonnage consumed.

I've once again badly expressed what I am asking so here is another attempt.

Yes, size reduction or increase is not available to a mount that has no space requirement.

From what I gathered from my post MgT HG 2e Gionetti Class CL Triple Turret (Beam Laser, accurate, high yield) cost here is what I think might apply.

A turret with the same weapons selecting Advanced the combined cost of the turret and weapons would be increased by 10%. The Advanced option also requires the selection of 1 Advantage taking Energy Efficient reduces combined turret and weapons power consumption by 25%.

A pop-up triple turret is MCr2 + Three Beam Lasers is MCr 3 = MCr5 x 1.1 = MCr5.5.

By selecting the Energy Efficient modification reduces the Power 25%. Turret Power 1 + 3 x Beam Laser Power 4 = Turret Power 1 + Beam Laser Power 12 = 13 x (1 - 0.25) = 13 x 0.75 = Power 3.75.

The pop-up triple turret is refitted with an Advanced Beam Laser, and two missile racks.

Would the Advanced cost be calculated cost of just the laser or turret + laser or turret + Laser + missile rack?

Would the Energy Efficient 25% be applied to just the laser or turret + laser or turret + Laser + missile rack?

Hopefully, I have been a bit clearer in what I'm trying to figure out for my spreadsheet.

 

[Jeraa]

The modifiers are applied only to the individual weapon with them. Putting Energy Efficient on a laser won't change the power requirements of the turret, nor increase its cost. It also doesn't change anything about any other weapons in the same turret.

 

[snrdg121408]

Morning PST Jeraa,

The modifiers are applied only to the individual weapon with them. Putting Energy Efficient on a laser won't change the power requirements of the turret, nor increase its cost. It also doesn't change anything about any other weapons in the same turret.

If the Advantage Modification of Energy Efficient alters the energy requirement of the beam laser the selection of the Advanced feature will only change the cost of beam laser right?

 

[Condottiere]

If you're going to mix and match, remember there are four separate components, the turret and three weapon systems.

If you enlarge the weapon systems, you either use up the space allocated for one or two weapon systems, or you enlarge the turret.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

The entire weapon system is upgraded together, weapon and turret alike.

Final cost = Base Price × 150% = 2.5 × 150% = MCr 3.75

Correct.

So, how do we apply different advantages to weapons in the same turret? We have no system, but the simple way would be to apply the worst penalties to the turret?

So if we have a turret with an Energy Inefficient weapon and a Reduced Size weapon, the turret would have a size of 100% (since one of the weapons are not reduced), power consumption of 130%, and a price of 110%?

 

[snrdg121408]

Afternoon PST Another Dilbert,

The entire weapon system is upgraded together, weapon and turret alike.

Final cost = Base Price × 150% = 2.5 × 150% = MCr 3.75

Correct.

So, how do we apply different advantages to weapons in the same turret? We have no system, but the simple way would be to apply the worst penalties to the turret?

So if we have a turret with an Energy Inefficient weapon and a Reduced Size weapon, the turret would have a size of 100% (since one of the weapons are not reduced), power consumption of 130%, and a price of 110%?

The sample Mercenary Cruiser MgT HG 2e p. 148 has 8 TL 9 Triple Turrets without any weapons indicated that they require 8 tons of hull space, cost MCr 8, and a Power requirement of Turret 8.

I want to install one Triple Turret (Beam Laser) on the Mercenary Cruiser.

Going to the 200 Ton SDB on p. 124 one Triple Turret (Beam Laser) is Tons: 1, MCr2.5. The power requirements for the Triple turret (Beam Laser) is not listed, however a triple turret requires Power: 1 and a 3 beam lasers require (3 x 4) = Power 12. The total power requirement for the triple turret (beam laser) is 1 = 12 = 13.

The 200 ton SDB has one Triple Turret TL 9 (Beam Laser TL 10) with specifications of: Tons: 1 and Cost: MCr2.5. The Patrol Corvette ship record sheet MgT HG 2e p. 137 has under the Power Requirement section an entry of Weapons: 28. For one Triple Turret (Beam Laser) I believe the proper Power Requirements entry would be Weapon: 13.

Ship Record Sheet: Weapons: Triple Turret (Beam Laser); Tons: 1; Cost: MCr2.5; Power Requirements: Weapon: 13

Instead of the TL 10 Beam Laser I am going to install three Advanced Beam Lasers in to one of the existing TL 9 triple turrets. The base specifications for a single TL 9 Triple Turret which according to the Mount Table, MgT HG 2e p. 24, has a Power Requirement of 1, takes up 1 displacement ton of hull space, and has a cost of MCr1.

Ship Record Sheet: Weapons: Triple Turret (Empty); Tons: 1; Cost: MCr1; Power Requirements: Turret: 1

According to the rules the Advanced option increases the the tech level by 1 TL, the cost increases by 10%, and 1 Advantage modification is required.

The Beam Laser is available at TL 10, has a Power requirement of 4, does not list a tonnage requirement, and has a cost of MCr0.5. Selecting the Advanced option adds 1 to the base TL making the Advanced Beam Laser TL as TL10 + 1 = TL11 and the base cost is increased from MCr0.5 by 10% = MCr0.5 x 1.1 = MCr0.55.

An Advanced Beam Laser has the following characteristics at this point: TL 11, Power 4, no changes to tons, cost of MCr0.55, and requires the selection of 1 Advantage Modification.

Advanced Beam Laser (TL 11) without Advantage modification; Tons: NA; Cost: MCr0.55; Power Requirements: Weapon: 4

On MgT HG 2e p. 49 I decided that the Advanced Beam Laser will use the Energy efficient Advantage modification.

The Advanced TL11 Beam Laser's power requirement has nothing to do with the power needed to operate the installed TL 9 triple turret and would not be part of the Energy Efficient Advantage modification.

Taking the Advanced option updated the Beam Laser to Energy Efficient Advantage modification reduces the Beam Laser's power requirement by 25% or uses 75% of the power for a TL 10 Beam Laser. One TL Beam Laser requires Power 4 and an Advanced TL11 Beam Laser's power requirement is 4 x 0.75 = 3.

Advanced Beam Laser (TL 11, Energy Efficient) with Advantage modification; Tons: NA; Cost: MCr0.55; Power Requirements: Weapon: 3

3x Advanced Beam Laser (TL 11, Energy Efficient) with Advantage modification Total Cost; Tons: NA; Cost: MCr1.65; Power Requirements: Weapon: 9

The Total cost for one Triple Turret (Advanced Beam Laser, energy efficient): Tons: 1; Cost: Turret MCr1 + 3 Advanced Beam Laser total cost MCr1.65 = MCr2.65; Requirements: Weapon: Turret 1 + 3 Beam Laser total 9 = 10

Unfortunately, the rules do not cover the installation of primitive and advanced weapons in existing mounts just like how to do mixed weapons with one or more of them using the primitive and advanced option.

Which means that instead of filling existing empty turret with primitive or advanced weapons you have to replace the entire turret.

Barbette and Bay using the Primitive and Advanced option is straight forward since everything is already calculated to fit within the structure without regard to the separate requirements for the installed weapons and ready munitions.

 

[snrdg121408]

Morning PST,

Primitive and Advanced Spacecraft Turrets
Turrets are not one complete package like screens, spinal mounts, bays, or barbettes, instead they are a two component system which is (1) the turret structure with requirements for TL, Power, Tons, and Cost that can house 1, 2, 3, or optionally 4 weapons and (2) the weapon system with requirements for TL, Power, and Cost.

From this and other threads applying Primitive and Advanced Spacecraft Prototype/Advanced options does the following alterations:
Example 1:
(1) The selected Prototype/Advanced option alters the turret's, MgT HG 2e p. 24, (1) TL, (2) Tonnage, (3) Cost, and (4) Weapon & Screen Advantages or Disadvantages for Size and Power alters the turret's size or power.
(2) The selected Prototype/Advanced option alters the selected weapon system's, MgT HG 2e pp. 25 & 68 (1) TL, (2) Cost, and Weapon & Screen Advantages or Disadvantages for size is not applicable since weapons have no sized requirement, but the Power ones alter the weapons power requirement.

A Single turret (TL 10 Beam Laser) package is:
1. Turret 1 ton + Beam Laser 0 tons = Turret/Beam Laser 1 ton
2. Turret Power 1 + Beam Laser Power 4 = Turret/Beam Laser Power 5
3. Single Turret Cost Cr200,000 + Beam Laser Cost Cr500,000 =Turret/Beam Laser Cost Cr700,000

For variety a ship purchases a cheap Single Turret (TL 10 Beam laser) package. To make a standard Single Turret (TL 10 Beam Laser) cheaper one looks at the Primitive and Advanced Spacecraft Prototype/Advanced MgT HG 2e p. 48 and determines the option needed is Budget which does not alter TL or Tonnage, but does decease the cost by 25% and requires 1 Disadvantage.

At this stage only the Single turret (TL 10 Beam Laser) package cost is reduced from Cr700,000 to Cr700,000 - Cr175,000 = Cr525,000.

The Budget Single turret (TL 10 Beam Laser) package is:
1. Turret/Beam Laser 1 ton
2. Turret/Beam Laser Power 5
3. Turret/Beam Laser Cost Cr525,000

One Disadvantage is required and looking at MgT HG 2e p. 49 the options are Energy Inefficient, Inaccurate, or Increased Size. Choosing Increased Size increases the turret/beam lasers tonnage by 20%.

The turret size is 1 ton x 1.2 = 1.2 tons + Beam Laser size 0 tons x 1.2 = 0 tons = Turret/Beam Laser size 1.2 tons.

The turret size is increased mount the beam laser. Double, Triple, and Quad turrets all are 1 ton and when the Size Reduction or Increased Size options are altered by the same amount, but they all still fit the same number of weapons in the space.

Instead of choosing Increased Size the Energy Inefficient option is taken and the turret/beam lasers power requirement is increased by 30%.

The turret power is 1 x 1.3 = 1.3 tons + Beam Laser Power 4 x 1.3 = 5.2 = Turret/Beam Laser power 6.5.

Example 2:
A Single Turret (Empty) was purchased with a ship and the owner decides to purchase a Budget TL 10 Beam Laser. The Increased Size option is not available since the turret is already built which leaves the options of Inaccurate or Energy Inefficient.

Summary:
Applying Primitive and Advanced Spacecraft Prototype/Advanced to an existing Turret/Weapon package alters the packages TL, Power, Tons, and cost.

When Applying Primitive and Advanced Spacecraft Prototype/Advanced weapon to an existing Turret the altered Weapon's Power and cost is added to the turret's numbers.

Removing the Budget Beam Laser without substituting a weapon will result in a Single Turret (Empty) of 1.2 tons if the increased size option is used and the cost should be Cr150,000. The turret's combined power requirement is 6.5 with the budget beam laser installed removing the weapon should logically result is a power consumption of 1.3 and cost of Cr150,000.

When installing mixed weapons with increased sized disadvantage the size and cost of the turret is based on the weapon with the size disadvantage. Energy Inefficient the power and cost of the weapon increases and the turret requirements are not altered.

When installing mixed weapons with advantage the size reduction the weapon's cost is altered and the turret requirements are not altered. Energy Efficient the power and cost of the weapon increases and the turret requirements are not altered.

Am I still out to lunch on this subject?