Masterwork Weapons and Akbitanan Weapons?

[rook111]

I am wondering if it is possible/feasable/a good idea to allow the standard masterwork weapons back into the Conan Game alongside the more impressive Akbitanan.

As things stand there is no way other than an Akbitanan weapon to have a quality weapon and only Shemites can have that feat. I find it a little hard to swallow that no one other than the smiths of a single city capable of crafting a supurbly balanced weapon.

Any thoughts, arguments, or comments? :shock:

 

[Iron_Chef]

I'm of a mind to agree with you. It sucks to have Craft: Weaponsmith and not be able to create masterwork iweapons. You have to be a Shemite and high level and waste a feat to get Akbitanan Smith, or certain other nationalities to create superior armor.

Masterwork Weapon: +1 to hit. Cost: 50% of the Akbitanan version cost.

 

[BhilJhoanz]

I disagree -- I would assume that blacksmiths of other realms would already be making the best weapons they know how to make. The Akbitanan's have special skills shared only among their own!

Why steal and degrade a special ability of the Shemites? That's like saying "Why can't a soldier sneak attack?! he should be able to learn how to do that!" Well he can, and it's called being a Thief . . .

If you want to make special weapons, be a Shemite!

 

[Iron_Chef]

Akbitanan steel still gives you +2 AP, 1.5 x hardness, and double hit points, something that a simple "masterwork" weapon does not do, and all of which are still important and desirable qualities in a weapon, particularly using Conan rules. Akbitanan steel does not let you get anything but blades, whereas masterwork lets you get ANY kind of weapon. I think the game has room for BOTH masterwork and Akbitanan, just as D&D has room for masterwork and adamantite weapons. Masterwork is good, but adamantite is better.

The thing to do to give it flavor within the Conan setting is to make masterwork weapons special to special geographic locations, such as the finest (non-Akbitanan) daggers, knives, throwing knives and stilettos come from Arenjun. Therefore, to craft masterwork small blades, one must be a Zamoran with x ranks in Craft: Weaponsmith.

 

[Darkstorm]

A modern-day counterpart of Akbitanian Steel would be Damascus Steel.

 

[Johannixx]

In which case the AEsir and Vanir should be able to craft pattern-welded blades of equal strength and durability, yes?

I think Chef's got a good idea.

 

[Iron_Chef]

In which case the AEsir and Vanir should be able to craft pattern-welded blades of equal strength and durability, yes?

I think Chef's got a good idea.

MASTERWORK WEAPONS
A masterwork weapon grants the wielder a +1 bonus to one option of the crafter's choice: attack rolls, damage rolls or armor piercing.

Such weapons are not typically found for sale and will cost three times as much as a normal version of the weapon (minimum 30 sp).

MASTERWORK WEAPONS BY RACE:
Antillian: Blowgun (+1 hit)
Bossonian: Bossonian longbow (+1 attack)
Darfari: All clubs (+1 Dmg)
Ghanata: Ghanata knife (+1 Dmg)
Gunderman: Pike (+1 AP)
Hyborian: All Maces (+1 AP), Lances (+1 AP), Polearms (+1 Dmg), Swords (+1 hit), Warhammers (+1 AP)
Hyrkanian: Hyrkanian bow (+1 Dmg)
Kothian: Greatsword (+1 dmg)
Kushite: All Spears (+1 hit), Bamula Hunting Bow (+1 Dmg)
Nordheimir: All Axes and Swords (except scimitar and tulwar) (+1 hit), War Maul (+1 AP)
Picts: All Primitive weapons (+1 hit)
Shemite: All swords, Shemite bow (+1 hit)
Souther Islander or Souther Black Kingdom Tribesman: Spear (+1 Dmg)
Stygian: Khopesh, Stygian bow, Short sword, Whip (+1 hit)
Turanian: Hyrkanian bow, Scimitar, Tulwar, Whip (+1 Dmg)
Vendhyan: Light lance, Tulwar (+1 AP)
Yuetshi: Yuetshi knife (+1 Dmg)
Zamorian: All Daggers, Knives, Stilettos (+1 Dmg)
Zingaran: Arming Sword, Broadsword (+1 hit)

In addition to being of the correct race, the creator must also have a minimum 8 ranks in Craft (Weaponsmith).

The Khopesh sword is not yet in the rules, but can be seen on the Road Of Kings cover; it is a hooked egyptian sword suitable for disarming foes.

Sword, Khopesh (Exotic One-Handed Melee Weapon): A khopesh is a hooked sword of Stygian manufacture which lends itself exceptionally well to disarm and trip attacks. Users with the Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat receive a +2 bonus to disarm and trip attacks.

Sword, Khopesh: Cost: 100 sp, Dmg: 1d8, Crit 19-20/x2, AP: 1, Rang: 0, Hardness: 10, Hit Points: 5, Wt. 3 lb., Type: Slashing.

The war maul (Thorgrim's hammer from CtB) is here:

War Maul (Two-handed Exotic Melee Weapon): The war maul is a five foot warhammer that is too heavy to use for an untrained Medium creature, even with two hands. In fact, a creature must have a minimum Strength score of 17 to even wield one effectively at all, and suffers not only the -4 non-proficient penalty to attack rolls but also a -4 penalty to initiative. A Medium creature with the Exotic Weapon Proficiency and Strength 17+ can wield the war maul with two hands with a -2 penalty to attack rolls and initiative. A Large creature can use a war maul with two hands as a martial weapon with no penalties, or with one hand as an exotic weapon with a penalty of -2 to attack rolls and initiative. A Large creature without the Exotic Weapon Proficiency who uses the war maul in one hand suffers the standard -4 penalty to its attack rolls and initiative.

War Maul: Cost: 100 sp, Damage: 2d12/x2, AP: 8, Hardness: 8, Hit Points: 10, Type: Bludgeoning, Reach: 0, Weight: 9 lb.

[EDIT] Added Khopesh. Revised war maul. Revised MW to allow +1 bonus to either attack, damage or AP.

 

[Johannixx]

I think I'd limit the Picts to primitive spears and hunting bows, as well as primitive hatchets, hand axes and daggers. They tended to use copper and bronze, and had no real knowledge of steel until well after Conan's time.

 

[Iron_Chef]

I think I'd limit the Picts to primitive spears and hunting bows, as well as primitive hatchets, hand axes and daggers. They tended to use copper and bronze, and had no real knowledge of steel until well after Conan's time.

Oops. You're right. Removed Picts from list. Stupid Picts! :wink:

 

[Johannixx]

I don't know if I'd remove them from the list, just limit them to primitive spears. There are more than likely Pictish weaponsmiths who can make a well-balanced copper-headed spear, just not an iron one.

 

[Iron_Chef]

I don't know if I'd remove them from the list, just limit them to primitive spears. There are more than likely Pictish weaponsmiths who can make a well-balanced copper-headed spear, just not an iron one.

Well, okay! LOL, I added them back in but limited them to "primitive spears".

 

[Yuan-Ti]

I think this is a good idea, especially if you limit it by region as Iron Chef has done. I urge everyone to limit them in their game, unless a player wants to spend a lot of time making them, however.

I might even raise it to 12 ranks to keep my Hyborian soldier from cranking out a MW Greatsword for everyone in the party.

 

[Johannixx]

At the risk of nitpicking more, why not add primitive hand axes, hatchets and knives/daggers to the Picts? They seem to be the primary weapons of the culture. Maybe hunting bows, too.

 

[rook111]

Great comments. I'm going with the Iron_Chef's rule addtion.

Thanks Guys.

 

[Iron_Chef]

At the risk of nitpicking more, why not add primitive hand axes, hatchets and knives/daggers to the Picts? They seem to be the primary weapons of the culture. Maybe hunting bows, too.

1. Added all primitive weapons to Picts.

2. Thanks for the praise!

3. I think Craft (Weaponsmith) 8+ ranks is sufficient, so a 5th level Commoner or PC could craft them; keep in mind that even if the character gets 2 free ranks in Craft (Weaponsmith) from his racial background skills, he still will be devoting six more ranks to a skill he can only use as long as the GM allows circumstances and time to fit. Akbitanan weapons require 12 ranks and are much more complicated, that's the primary reason why I reduced it to 8 ranks.

 

[slaughterj]

The weapons are listed by race - is this intended to be a racial restriction on who can make what into a masterwork weapon, like only Shemites being able to make Akbitanan weapons?

I'm not a fan of such racial restrictions - I don't see why, e.g., a Cimmerian weaponsmith could not travel to Akbitana and learn from the smiths there how to make such weapons, or how why a Turanian couldn't travel to Bossonia and learn how to make masterwork Bossonian longbows. I understand the racial thing is a control, but it is an artificial one, just like character classes and levels are in gaming systems (I prefer a system not to have those, but Conan's pretty good for one that does). I personally would prefer to control who can make what based on logic - i.e., only if you are trained to make such things, can you do so, regardless of race (note, this has nothing to do with racial discrimination ). However, I do understand that *typically* only a person of that race will be exposed to such training based on people's limited travel, etc.

 

[PlayWithBob]

I don't see why, e.g., a Cimmerian weaponsmith could not travel to Akbitana and learn from the smiths there how to make such weapons, or how why a Turanian couldn't travel to Bossonia and learn how to make masterwork Bossonian longbows. {snip} However, I do understand that *typically* only a person of that race will be exposed to such training based on people's limited travel, etc.

How about a general feat that allows you to learn the secrets of smithing a masterwork weapon that is not of your race? Make the prerequisite that you have to travel to the country that makes the type of weapons you want to craft and learn from a master there.

I can write something up in a bit if the idea is not shot down

Thrack

 

[Badelaire]

I know i'm jumping into this debate a little late, but I had been thinking about this idea for the time when I can get to run a Conan game. Here are some of my thoughts.

Any weapon in Conan can probably be adjusted in any number of ways: Attack Roll, Damage Roll, Armor Piercing Ability, Critical Threat Range.

Any Quality weapon can have a +1 bonus to ONE of the above abilities, representing some facet of the weapon's design that an expert weapon-maker decided to focus on. For instance, perhaps a scimitar was given a serrated blade for extra damage, or a warhammer with a very carefully designed piercing beak for optimum penetration value.

The weapons are not for general sale. Either the PCs would have to commission one (at a substantial mark-up of probably at least +100%) or find one (usually by taking it from the cold, dead hands of its previous owner). These weapons are unique in that they are probably easily recognized by anyone who has seen them before, and will most likely bear the markings of the smith or weapon-maker who created them.

I figure this will give the PCs a little extra boon, something special they can hang onto with a little more sentimental value than a boring basic weapon, but nothing overly game-unbalancing or rediculous.

 

[InsomNY]

The weapons are listed by race - is this intended to be a racial restriction on who can make what into a masterwork weapon, like only Shemites being able to make Akbitanan weapons?

I'm not a fan of such racial restrictions - I don't see why, e.g., a Cimmerian weaponsmith could not travel to Akbitana and learn from the smiths there how to make such weapons, or how why a Turanian couldn't travel to Bossonia and learn how to make masterwork Bossonian longbows. etc.

The reason, especially for Akbitanan weapons, is not necessarily artificial. The smiths of Akbitan have a trade secret, one that makes their weapons superior to anything else on Earth. What possible reason could they have for sharing their construction methods with an outsider who has no loyalty to the city or its people? Doing so could lose the city its commercial and military edge in a generation or two, and I'm sure the rulers and smiths of Akbitan would be willing to kill to prevent this.

The same could be true of any other regional specialty item. It's part of the character of the country, something the artisans take great pride in calling their own. Jealously guarded secrets are an important part of the Hyborian feel, IMO.

However, if you decide to use masterwork weapons in the game, there's no compelling reason for every weapon to be associated with a particular culture, or for every culture to have a preferred weapon. If something has a regional name on it, you should have to be from there (or well-loved by its craftsmen) to learn the secrets of mastercraft. Zingarans making superior broadswords and arming swords also makes sense, since the nation is dueling-happy.

While I have your atention, could somebody tell me where I can find references to Akbitan? I never heard of the place before I picked up this game, and the city isn't marked on the map.

 

[slaughterj]

The weapons are listed by race - is this intended to be a racial restriction on who can make what into a masterwork weapon, like only Shemites being able to make Akbitanan weapons?

I'm not a fan of such racial restrictions - I don't see why, e.g., a Cimmerian weaponsmith could not travel to Akbitana and learn from the smiths there how to make such weapons, or how why a Turanian couldn't travel to Bossonia and learn how to make masterwork Bossonian longbows. etc.

The reason, especially for Akbitanan weapons, is not necessarily artificial. The smiths of Akbitan have a trade secret, one that makes their weapons superior to anything else on Earth. What possible reason could they have for sharing their construction methods with an outsider who has no loyalty to the city or its people? Doing so could lose the city its commercial and military edge in a generation or two, and I'm sure the rulers and smiths of Akbitan would be willing to kill to prevent this.

The same could be true of any other regional specialty item. It's part of the character of the country, something the artisans take great pride in calling their own. Jealously guarded secrets are an important part of the Hyborian feel, IMO.

However, if you decide to use masterwork weapons in the game, there's no compelling reason for every weapon to be associated with a particular culture, or for every culture to have a preferred weapon. If something has a regional name on it, you should have to be from there (or well-loved by its craftsmen) to learn the secrets of mastercraft. Zingarans making superior broadswords and arming swords also makes sense, since the nation is dueling-happy.

While I have your atention, could somebody tell me where I can find references to Akbitan? I never heard of the place before I picked up this game, and the city isn't marked on the map.

I understand where you are coming from, which is a reason to say in the description that *most* likely you need to be from the race, not an absolute restriction.

As for Akbitan, on the map on the book inside covers, it is misplaced a few countries north of its actual location, but has been corrected on the downloadable map on this site and is in the middle of Shem on that map.