Low Tech Discussion

[Chas]

So I was building this TL10 100,000 ton ship to see the results and...

There are no defences vs. nuclear weapons so it's nuclear missiles or nuclear torps, multi war head of course.

The rail gun spinal is left in the dust, I can't see any reason to include this unless it's a small ship thinking it can never beat the turret PD. Otherwise you stack as many missiles or torps as possible to beat turret PD, and once PD is beaten as in a multi ship scenario... bom bom pow.

As I've built it the ship has 80 Large Torpedo Bays i.e. 2400 multi war head nuclear torps a turn, with 600 laser turrets for PD.

Particularly in a low tech vs. high tech universe the rail gun spinal gets left behind as only medium range. All the tonnage not used in engines and fuel all goes into missile/torp firepower.

There's not a lot to do here at this TL or to bother with for ship design, you either beat turret PD or you don't and you lose.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Life is complicated. At TL10 any augmentations for the gunners is not available, so a good gunner is +3 (skill-2, DEX+1). EW is insignificant with max sensor DM ±0.

Pulse Laser turrets are able to do significant damage against Armour 10, when they are not killing missiles. A laser turret only kills 4 missiles or 0.9 MWTorpedoes.

 

[Chas]

Pulse Laser turrets are able to do significant damage against Armour 10, when they are not killing missiles. A laser turret only kills 4 missiles or 0.9 MWTorpedoes.

Yep, but that laser damage is put in the shade by what undamped nuclear missiles and torps are doing... let alone if we get into multi nuclear warheads, ouch!

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Yes, a quick estimate:

A laser ship is half the cost of a same size torpedo ship with torpedoes.
The laser ship can kill 1/4 of the torpedoes, but we have twice as many ships so kills 1/2 of the torpedoes. Laser ships die a quick and gruesome death.

PD is not effective enough to stop most MWtorpedoes, so torpedoes rule the skies.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

All ships will die to a salvo or two, so the automated missile/torpedo drone looks like a serious contender. Note they cannot launch at distant range and hope to hit anything.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Something like this seems called for:

Autonomous missile drone
35 dT, Hull 15, MCr 11 in bulk + MCr 12 for 4 rounds of nuclear missiles.
M-drive 3G, Reaction 12G, Armour 10
One missile barbette, launches 5 missiles/attack.
We even have 4 dT over.

TL 10             HullP 15                          27,214     
                         Desired  Rat  #   dTonn   Cost   Power  Hardp  Crew
Hull                                        35,0            7,0    
Config  Close Structure      2     2                1,9      
Hull strength  Standard      2     2            
Armour  Crystaliron         20    10         4,4    1,1      
Rad Shielding                1     1                0,9      
                  
ManœuvreD  Budget, EneIneff  9     3   1     1,1    1,6    13,1          0
PowerP  VAdv:2*Size                    1     1,6    1,0    20,1          0
Fuel, Power                  4    25   1     1,0        
                  
ReactionD  VAdv, 2*FuelEff  12    12   1     8,4    1,7                  0
Reaction Fuel  10 turns      1     1        10,5        
                  
Comp         m/10            2    10   1            0,2      
Backup Comp  m/5             1     5   1            0,0      
Virtual Crew/0  5                                   1,0      

Sensors  Basic      1          

Cargo                                        4,1        

Barbette                  
Missile                      1   TL7   1     3,5    4,0             1    1
                  
Launched  5 miss/att         5                     15,0

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Or the small variant:

Autonomous missile drone
2.7 dT, Hull 1, MCr 1.35 in bulk + MCr 2.4 for 4 rounds of nuclear missiles.
M-drive 3G, Reaction 12G, Armour 0
One missile rack in fixed mount, launches 1 missiles/attack.

TL 10             HullP 1                           1,4835     
                         Desired  Rat  #   dTonn   Cost   Power  
Hull                                         2,7            0,5    
Config  Close Structure      4     4                0,1      
Hull strength  Light         1     1            
                  
ManœuvreD  Budget, EneIneff  9     3   1     0,1    0,1     1,0         
PowerP     VAdv:2*Size                 1     0,1    0,1     1,6 
Fuel, Power                4 w         1     1,0        
                  
ReactionD                   12    12   1     0,6    0,1       0
Reaction Fuel 10 turns       1         1     0,8        
                  
Comp         m/10            2    10   1            0,2      
Backup Comp  m/5             1     5   1            0,0      
Virtual Crew/0  5                                   1,0      

Sensors  Basic                         1          

Turret                  
Missile                      1   TL7   1     1,0    0,9  
                  
Launched  1 miss/att  5                             3,0

 

[Chas]

A passing thought before I sign out. I wonder if 2 equally matched ships will both manage to destroy each other in guaranteed mutual destruction regardless of initiative given the flight times.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Or the laser variant. It is slightly more likely to hit in a dogfight, and since any hit kills a small drone...

Autonomous laser drone
3.5 dT, Hull 1, MCr 2.85 in bulk.
M-drive 3G, Reaction 12G, Armour 0
One pulse laser in fixed mount.

TL 10             HullP 1                           3,1649     
                         Desired  Rat  #   dTonn   Cost   Power  
Hull                                         3,5            0,7    
Config  Close Structure      4     4                0,1      
Hull strength  Light         1     1            
                  
ManœuvreD  Budget, EneIneff  9     3   1     0,1    0,2     1,3         
PowerP     VAdv:2*Size                 1     0,5    0,3     6,0 
Fuel, Power                4 w         1     1,0        
                  
ReactionD                   12    12   1     0,8    0,2       0
Reaction Fuel 10 turns       1         1     1,1        
                  
Comp         m/10            2    10   1            0,2      
Backup Comp  m/5             1     5   1            0,0      
Virtual Crew/0  5                                   1,0      

Sensors  Basic                         1          

Pulse Laser fixed mount      1   TL7   1            1,2     4,0

 

[AnotherDilbert]

A passing thought before I sign out. I wonder if 2 equally matched ships will both manage to destroy each other in guaranteed mutual destruction regardless of initiative given the flight times.

Quite, a missile or torpedo ship will kill everything within range even if it is killed first. That is why I turned to drones...

 

[AnotherDilbert]

At TL 10 fragmentation missiles are quite effective. Drones will be killed quickly. Torpedoes have little chance against drones in dogfight.

It looks like missile ships win against drones, drones win against torpedo ships and torpedo ships win against missile ships. But missile ships and torpedo ships will annihilate each other and a lot more.

A torpedo ship will kill three times its own tonnage with every salvo. At distant range it could launch every torpedo in it's magazine and kill 20 - 30 times its own tonnage before being killed itself. Concentrated fleets seems vulnerable.

 

[Chas]

An age of enlightenment and peace as gentlepersons politely waved to each other from their respective vessels and decided on less suicidal ways to settle their differences.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

After the drones have annihilated each other, the survivors will come after the other sides gentlebeings, kill them and nuke their homeworld back to the stone age...

Bah, people will not change.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

The conqueror's creed:

One day in the pavilion at Karakorum he [Genghis Khan] asked an officer of the Mongol guard what, in all the world, could bring the greatest happiness.

"The open steppe, a clear day, and a swift horse under you," responded the officer after a little thought, "and a falcon on your wrist to start up hares."

"Nay," responded the Khan, "to crush your enemies, to see them fall at your feet -- to take their horses and goods and hear the lamentation of their women. That is best."

Psychopaths are a part of humanity, whether the rest of us like it or not. Barring major genetic engineering they will remain so.

 

[Condottiere]

Countered by the Secret of Steel.