Longevity

[dragoner]

The age old question: So how does one work the idea of longevity into the game? Reading Hamilton's Pandora's Star, I have an idea for every 50-60 years people would go for a rejuv-regen (R&R) with the downside being that the memories of your past life fade, eliminating your skillset. Maximum life I have read, even if essentially immortal, would statistically last only about 250-300 years due to fatal accidents. So rules for mong? Roll 1-6, pickup that many 0 levels as skills from past lives, or easily just say none, using past lives for the background skills already there. The 1-6 would be the number of past lives, with maybe people would call each life an avatar.

It would totally change the nature of the Imperium though, 1100 years would only be the reign of a handful of Emperors, and the MegaCorps and Family Dynasties would be much more entrenched.

 

[phavoc]

If the rejuv process removed their previous memories, they may turn out to be different people. Of course the big "IF" there is just how much do they lose and have to re-learn? Do they remember their childhood and all the influences that shaped them into becoming a young adult? If so then they might turn out to be roughly the same person as before.

If the person who rejuved had no real old knowledge, one might legally argue they aren't the same person, just the same body. It could set up all kinds of dynastic struggles, or worse, the "new" person is influenced by a different set of people and proceeds down a totally different path.

Cherryh talks about this with her azi in the Cyteen set of novels. They clone the person and find out that it's more than just genetics that shapes geniuses into being who they used to be.

 

[dragoner]

Cyteen trilogy, started better than it finished; good along the way though.

I think there could be memories of the memories, such as watching a film, in Cyteen, there was no memory, the clone had to be raised with the exact same experiences. The idea of each life being an Avatar, sort of fits the different person narrative. Similar to both narratives are property rights being maintained through rejuvenation, the twists and turns each life goes through can be completely different, but they would be anyway.

I'm just brainstorming. Rules could handle it I think, not sure about the 3I setting.

 

[Condottiere]

Google Glass; record most of your life; as you are about to get rejuvenated, you can edit out the bits that you might not want to remember.

 

[AndrewW]

Google Glass; record most of your life; as you are about to get rejuvenated, you can edit out the bits that you might not want to remember.

Something like this is done in the Crystal Singer books by Anne McCaffrey, where they record their memories.

 

[dragoner]

Pandora's Star has people recording and deleting their memories as well.

 

[alex_greene]

Skillchips and expert programs. Also, a robot factotum might not have the restrictions and limitations of human memories - and they could always keep the character abreast on events of his oldlife effaced by natural age-related mnemonic lacunae.

 

[dragoner]

Somebody could get into your stored memories and make a mix of your most heart-wrenching experiences and trick you into down loading those - do a san check. Fail equals deep dark depression.

 

[alex_greene]

Somebody could get into your stored memories and make a mix of your most heart-wrenching experiences and trick you into down loading those - do a san check. Fail equals deep dark depression.

Only with the player's permission and agreement between the player and the referee. It's one of the rules I insist on - nobody likes the ref doing nasty things to the things they may be emotionally depending on such as fridging their favourite NPC, playing the dice rolls exactly and having them stranded in a deep space hex with no fuel, 17 parsecs from the nearest star system, or vandalising their externally-stored long-term memories.

Here's an example: in The Thing In The Pit, I gave the Travellers a moral choice. One of them would have to stay behind and sacrifice his life for the sake of the team and the planet. Only, I gave them the option of allowing them all to opt out, leaving the choice in the hands of their favourite NPC, who'd accompanied them into the Pit. I know it took the sting out, but it was my way of saying to them that it was okay if they all wanted to hang on to their characters this time - even though they knew they might have to face this choice at any time.

 

[dragoner]

Somebody could get into your stored memories and make a mix of your most heart-wrenching experiences and trick you into down loading those - do a san check. Fail equals deep dark depression.

Only with the player's permission and agreement between the player and the referee. It's one of the rules I insist on - nobody likes the ref doing nasty things to the things they may be emotionally depending on such as fridging their favourite NPC, playing the dice rolls exactly and having them stranded in a deep space hex with no fuel, 17 parsecs from the nearest star system, or vandalising their externally-stored long-term memories.

Here's an example: in The Thing In The Pit, I gave the Travellers a moral choice. One of them would have to stay behind and sacrifice his life for the sake of the team and the planet. Only, I gave them the option of allowing them all to opt out, leaving the choice in the hands of their favourite NPC, who'd accompanied them into the Pit. I know it took the sting out, but it was my way of saying to them that it was okay if they all wanted to hang on to their characters this time - even though they knew they might have to face this choice at any time.

That was sarcasm, mostly. Kind of like rule 0, though I suppose every ref is guilty of it, in stations. The real dependence is frequency, and how hard you get it.

Honestly, I'll probably never incorporate these rules into my game just because it veers to far off piste from RAW. Sadly enough. I have looked around for a game that is more futuristic, but haven't found anything. Even though the grognards of Traveller will scuttle any attempts to bring the game forward, there is enough of an other community to keep me hanging on.

 

[-Daniel-]

I have a lot of mixed feelings on the idea of extending life too long. I mean it might be interesting to play out what happens if Mr. Super-Rich realizes he has used up all his "extra" lives and can not upgrade again. How much would he pay to send a team off to look into other options. :wink:

 

[dragoner]

That is a cool adventure idea, and that is what new ideas can bring, are new adventures. That's what is great about thinking about things.

 

[Condottiere]

It's an issue you have to deal with from the beginning, especially if your campaign extends into the decades, one reason elves and their ilk are popular.

I think that Schmitz has a race turn shrink into super intelligent, agile and strong gnomes as they age.

 

[dragoner]

... shrink into super intelligent, agile and strong gnomes as they age.

I'll have to run that by the players.

 

[Anonymous]

<snip>eliminating your skillset <snip> So rules for mong? Roll 1-6, pickup that many 0 levels as skills from past lives, or easily just say none, using past lives for the background skills already there. The 1-6 would be the number of past lives, with maybe people would call each life an avatar.

The thing that strikes me about the bits quoted is that essentially a person is starting afresh. In game terms that's no different from rolling a new character, OK you might skip rolling stats but a clone might revert back to stats rolled and not those improved during chargen.

It would totally change the nature of the Imperium though, 1100 years would only be the reign of a handful of Emperors, and the MegaCorps and Family Dynasties would be much more entrenched.

But it's totally playable in your setting. If you make it a product of the TL some worlds in your sector are just reaching it's something to introduce and being new, won't yet be widespread.

I agree tho that it wouldn't be something to weave into canon, it would have too great an effect if no one died of natural causes tho that said, how many in the Imperium are using anagathics, legal or otherwise? Anagathics used over a period of centuries would have a similar effect.

And yes, the grognards will lynch you. Not that you aren't used to them trying but yes, it is boring.

 

[Anonymous]

And, gives you a reason (like you needed one) to read Altered Carbon and the other Takeshi Kovacs novels :wink:

 

[dragoner]

And, gives you a reason (like you needed one) to read Altered Carbon and the other Takeshi Kovacs novels :wink:

I don't need a reason to buy them, I will though, yesterday I bought a bunch of books: Song of Stone by Banks, Memory by Bujold, the sequels to Revelation Space, the sequel to Pandora's Star, a Silverberg that MWM mentioned on fb, and a bunch of others. Too many maybe, like with Burgess Meredith on the Twilight Zone.

<snip>eliminating your skillset <snip> So rules for mong? Roll 1-6, pickup that many 0 levels as skills from past lives, or easily just say none, using past lives for the background skills already there. The 1-6 would be the number of past lives, with maybe people would call each life an avatar.

The thing that strikes me about the bits quoted is that essentially a person is starting afresh. In game terms that's no different from rolling a new character, OK you might skip rolling stats but a clone might revert back to stats rolled and not those improved during chargen.

Yes, you have it exactly, it is starting over, but isn't that what we would really want from the process? Losing the burden of memory, or at least it's bite, so that memories were like a film you saw long ago, does not sound bad either.

But it's totally playable in your setting. If you make it a product of the TL some worlds in your sector are just reaching it's something to introduce and being new, won't yet be widespread.

This setting, yes I could, but I also have another one in mind, with the TL of Earth and the core worlds at TL23, using a real stellar atlas, and the frontier worlds at about TL15 or less. It could encompass a huge area of space, and in that the core would be the aliens to the more approachable from our viewpoint, colonials. Even now I'm looking at high tech stuff, like from Greg Porter's work for T4 with the Emperor's Arsenal and Central Supply Catalog. Must resist the urge to do it though.

I agree tho that it wouldn't be something to weave into canon, it would have too great an effect if no one died of natural causes tho that said, how many in the Imperium are using anagathics, legal or otherwise? Anagathics used over a period of centuries would have a similar effect.

And yes, the grognards will lynch you. Not that you aren't used to them trying but yes, it is boring.

True, but it's also why I threw out in the first post it would wreck canon.

It is sort of there with anagathics, esp for the Emperors and Dynasts like the MegaCorp families, which hasn't ever been addressed, partially though because it could quickly go to a dark place with the ancient Emperor and MegaCorp Dynasties ruling over the great mass of normal aging humanity.

 

[Anonymous]

Plenty of reading for you there! I get the feeling you speed read, I dawdle, will finish Blindsight at some point...

Yes, you have it exactly, it is starting over, but isn't that what we would really want from the process? Losing the burden of memory, or at least it's bite, so that memories were like a film you saw long ago, does not sound bad either.

That's conscious memories yes but what about your subconscious?

We learn many things sub vocally, we learn habits good and bad and repeat them in our daily behaviours. If you're essentially haunted by the conscious and sub conscious memories of a previous life I can see mental issues cropping up far more frequently than I can see a benefit for being reborn with the fragments of your old self.

Now this of course predisposes that we haven't found ways to address our little faux pas but if we introduce notions of Gattaca into the setting it gets a scary kind of place...

...which links in nicely with what you're saying about the elite ruling the masses, access to god like technology that enables effective immortality I could see leading to a psychosis in the elite where they actually think they're gods. Some of us actually play the nobility and megacorps as having taken on this role already, you're just fleshing out the details for me :wink:

BTRC's 3G3 is my bible! I'm very keen to hear what you're using from the work he did for T4. I very much like his approach to gear!

Not so sure about TL23 tho, could get a little too "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" for me and be very difficult for players to identify with.

 

[AndrewW]

I have a lot of mixed feelings on the idea of extending life too long. I mean it might be interesting to play out what happens if Mr. Super-Rich realizes he has used up all his "extra" lives and can not upgrade again. How much would he pay to send a team off to look into other options. :wink:

The series Extant has something along those lines. The potion he drank required an exotic substance. Goes to great length to find more of it.

 

[Lord High Munchkin]

How about brain plasticity? After the first life (and char gen) everything is merely "experience". You just don't gain skills, just "Yeah, I've seen this before".