AnotherDilbert
Emperor Mongoose
In a TU with collectors, why would anyone fiddle around with jump fuel?
I keep it an unknown alien tech, as it always was...
Long-distance Transports
- Thread starter Robin Low
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I keep it an unknown alien tech, as it always was...
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
You'd need service personnel, which would indicate a massive infrastructure to support that route, and likely regular trips up and down it.
As regards collectors, there's no downsides to them, like degradation, which I think is in Tee Five.
As regards collectors, there's no downsides to them, like degradation, which I think is in Tee Five.
AnotherDilbert
Emperor Mongoose
You answered yourself...
So, keep a few thousand battleships at every world?
But then the Zho would presumably also have unlimited resources and invade with thousands of battleships?
No, the Imperium has limited, but large resources. It has to choose between battle squadrons and extra tenders.
Geir
Emperor Mongoose
They are? Must have missed, but then again T4 was 20+ years ago and since I had no active Traveller people to associate in the late 90's I only read them once or twice and those brain cells are probably long since dead or orphaned. Where's the reference?
Geir
Emperor Mongoose
I'm Pretty sure Martin does know it in sufficient detail, since he's been writing these at least since the turn of the Millennium. Me, I've got all of... probably everything in physical or PDF form except some Cargonaut stuff and some fanzine materials that likely aren't canon anyway.The gates are relic era tech and are mentioned in the adventures Gateway and Long Way Home.
Once again I worry that MgT authors do not know canon in sufficient detail.
If you don't know just ask.
Since you mentioned the sources, I went and found them. I have the physical copies, but honestly, since I wasn't gaming, just collecting when T4 was out, I'm not sure I did more than look at the Chris Foss cover art and page through them. They look (and even smell) pristine after 26 years.
And I'll take the smiley faces at face value (yes, that's two faces in one sentence... sorry it's been a long day). If I don't know, I do ask (as I did here). The bigger problem is when I think I know, but really don't.
Seffix
Cosmic Mongoose
Related -- Is there anything preventing a service from pumping pre-jump fuel to a properly equipped* ship using an umbilicus from a tanker so that the ship could use the tanker's fuel for the jump power-up (as with drop tanks) and jump with almost full fuel tanks?
*I imagine this set-up would require a special fuel transfer kit to get the fuel to the jump drives, but it could provide an alternative to jump bridges. The umbilicus is there to minimize potential spatial distortions and the 100D issue.
*I imagine this set-up would require a special fuel transfer kit to get the fuel to the jump drives, but it could provide an alternative to jump bridges. The umbilicus is there to minimize potential spatial distortions and the 100D issue.
Geir
Emperor Mongoose
The high probability of damage to the drop tanks would certainly apply to the umbilicus, so it might be considered expendable. I would think the ship receiving the fuel would require the equivalent of a drop tank mount to accept fuel at the high flow rate required (much faster than a UNREP) and allow for a quick separation. Also, whatever fuel might still be in the umbilicus (I don't know, 10% of the amount transferred?) would probably be wasted, spewing out into space as the jump bubble expanded and likely shredded the umbilicus.
So sure, why not, but it would as you say require a special kit on the receiving ship and result in overhead costs for the extra consumables. It would be an edge case, probably only valid for bespoke courier vessels crossing rifts with a large budget base infrastructure supporting it. And in those cases, it might just be simpler to build a set of jump bridges and use standard ships.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
This has been a discussion point for more than forty years.
Drop tanks were originally destroyed if they were used and dropped.
Then someone said they were recoverable.
If a drop tank is recoverable then a tanker fueling a ship pre jump should be doable, if drop tanks are destroyed due to thheir proximity to the jump then an tanker would suffer damage and the the jump ship may misjump.
Making tankers able to fuel a jump ship changes the setting in fairly far reaching ways. No ship would waste fuel on jump fuel tankage unless they need to jump again in the destination system.
Every merchant would get rid of jump fuel tankage so it can carry more cargo and passengers.
Warships would be able to dispense with jump fuel tankage to have more armour, screens and weapons.
The Third Imperium setting would need a complete re-write.
Drop tanks were originally destroyed if they were used and dropped.
Then someone said they were recoverable.
If a drop tank is recoverable then a tanker fueling a ship pre jump should be doable, if drop tanks are destroyed due to thheir proximity to the jump then an tanker would suffer damage and the the jump ship may misjump.
Making tankers able to fuel a jump ship changes the setting in fairly far reaching ways. No ship would waste fuel on jump fuel tankage unless they need to jump again in the destination system.
Every merchant would get rid of jump fuel tankage so it can carry more cargo and passengers.
Warships would be able to dispense with jump fuel tankage to have more armour, screens and weapons.
The Third Imperium setting would need a complete re-write.
JustEastOfTheEdge
Cosmic Mongoose
Also, it occurs to me that, unless you use a Jump 6 to do smaller jumps (which seems rather a waste of having that hardware), the number of direct Jump 6 targets would occur on the edge of a large and mostly hollow hexagon. Very specific targets. I would think the most intense traffic would be between closer worlds, in the same way the London-Sydney route is not as busy as London-Paris.
So, I wonder if a humble Jump 2-3 on a massive ship in the end would be more profitable as it can be versatile and grab the most custom - especially for those clusters of worlds that seems to pepper the map not so randomly. Just a thought.
So, I wonder if a humble Jump 2-3 on a massive ship in the end would be more profitable as it can be versatile and grab the most custom - especially for those clusters of worlds that seems to pepper the map not so randomly. Just a thought.
AnotherDilbert
Emperor Mongoose
Agreed, so it does not work, at least as far I'm concerned.
AnotherDilbert
Emperor Mongoose
According to GT Far Trader, most of the passenger traffic is between very close pairs of hi-pop worlds, or long distance between the big hi-pop subsector capitals.
In general J-3 or J-4 ships are the cheapest for transporting stuff long distances.
I guess J-6 would be reserved for express routes between the big, important hi-pop worlds, like e.g. Mora, Glisten, and Rhylanor.
Gavain
Banded Mongoose
I guess the main question I here is: Why would someone opperate a massive J6 ship and fillnit with other ships rather than cargo of their own? For the destination it would be hugely disappointing to have such a ship arrive in system only for it to offload a number of tramp traders.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Unlikely with a jump bubble: at best, you'd have to transfer ten percent of starship volume in fuel over a hundred metres in a very robust hose, within less than six minutes, and still give the jump drive time to process it.
And the starship has to jettison the drop tanks fast enough that they aren't in range when the jump bubble is formed, so it's a lot faster than six minutes.
And the starship has to jettison the drop tanks fast enough that they aren't in range when the jump bubble is formed, so it's a lot faster than six minutes.
AnotherDilbert
Emperor Mongoose
Each tramp filled with cargo?
Gavain
Banded Mongoose
A J6 ship would only have max 20% capacity for cargo, tramp traders have around 50%, so still knocking your capacity a huge amount. I would possibly design such ships with collapsible tanks so that they can increase cargo capacity if they aren't using the full J6 capacity. Each reduction would yield 10% of ships size in new cargo capacity.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
The big strategic jump 6 tenders will be entirely dependent on drop tanks - it is a waste for them to use valuable tonnage on empty jump fuel tanks.
The original Third Imperium mention of drop tanks said they were being used in the Imperial core sectors for civilian merchants and to allow jump 6 xboats.
The original Third Imperium mention of drop tanks said they were being used in the Imperial core sectors for civilian merchants and to allow jump 6 xboats.
The drop tanks were to be mass produced for civilian use at designated yards, but the locals of the Spinward Marches were not too happy to have more Imperial presence in the Marches. They sabotaged a drop tank liner and blew up the drop tank construction facilities...
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