Lone Wolf
- Thread starter Arandur
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Greg Smith
Mongoose
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http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=952&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=lone+wolf
Arandur said:
To make matters worse, Grey Star's not even born yet ... :wink:
Don't get me wrong, Xex, I absolutely love the Grey Star series, but Arandur has a point. (Several, in fact.) The setting chosen by Mongoose doesn't really allow for playable Shianti Wizards (even human ones), and Grey Star is a lot more unique than Lone Wolf because at the outset of the respective series, there was a whole monastery full of Kai lords, but only one human orphan raised and trained by the Shianti. As for the matter of who lives when, have a look at Winter Wolf's post here. (In addition to Arandur's line of reasoning.)
And: Would it do the Grey Star series justice to be just tacked on to the main rulebook, which does focus on northern Magnamund and the Kai (it's called the Lone Wolf Rpg, after all)? Even if I have to wait, I would much prefer a whole setting book of it's own for Southern Magnamund and the Shianti (or an in-depth discussion of the Shianti in a kind of Magic of Magnamund Companion) ...
Paido
chrono_hal
Mongoose
Like Paido, I'm a big fan of Grey Star which I even prefer to Lone Wolf. And that's the reason why I am convinced that there should NOT be a grey-star-like wizard class. It would be absurd. The shianti are prisoners of the island of Lorn due to their promise to goddess Ishir and they can't have anything to do anymore with the Magnamund and the human living on it. Grey Star is a totally unique character, trained by the shiantis for a very peculiar goal. It would be a total nonsense if shianti-trained wizard would become something ordinary. It would just be ridiculous.
For me, even though they share the same world, Lone Wolf and Grey Star are two different beasts. I agree with Paido (and others) that Southern Magnamund and the whole Shianti story arc will fit just fine in a supplement. And that supplement will see the light of day if the sales of LW are good.
And Xex, please sit down and relax... There was no ridiculous post. :|
And Xex, please sit down and relax... There was no ridiculous post. :|
A
Anonymous
Guest
I meant the shianti have been around for thousands of years, and thus they could have trained someone else. And yes, I already know mention of grey star comes in the bucc of shadaki. I'm not aware of any newsletter refrences.
And FYI, I am not whining, it is you who are flaming. Its a reasonable request, one which I willl reiterate again. Grey STar belongs in the LW book as much as the kai. If you do not want a GS class, thats fine and dandy. Just shut up and wait for the book. Those of us that do, would like to make our views knows, so it can be made available in the MoM supplemnt, or available for download (or both).
And FYI, I am not whining, it is you who are flaming. Its a reasonable request, one which I willl reiterate again. Grey STar belongs in the LW book as much as the kai. If you do not want a GS class, thats fine and dandy. Just shut up and wait for the book. Those of us that do, would like to make our views knows, so it can be made available in the MoM supplemnt, or available for download (or both).
Xex said:
Hey, guys, let's try to keep this calm and peaceful.
Yes, Arandur's post on Friday did show some irritation. But wouldn't you be irritated, too, if you were called "ridiculous"? But he was still trying to stay reasonable! It's not a flame war yet, but if both of you keep getting more angry at each other, it won't be long before we do see a flame war here.
We all do realize that you are seriously interested in a Grey Star-inspired character class. Darn it, many of us would like to have one as well! But shouldn't such a character class be true to the setting and the Grey Star series? You are right, of course, the Shianti have been around for thousands of years. But they had no contact at all with humans after they retreated to their exile on the Isle of Lorn - that's an important part of the Grey Star background story! They didn't leave the isle, because Ishir asked that of them, so they couldn't have initiated a contact of that kind. And as for a human coming to them, just have another look at the chapter Of the Coming of Grey Star in each of the books:
and, of course:
Never before a human has set foot on the Isle of Lorn, and when this one was found, the Shianti were convinced that it was an omen! True, they had the lesser magicks of Prophecy, but I don't think that omens and portents of that magnitude are an everyday occurence to them. If they were, the Shianti wouldn't have made such a fuss about Grey Star, would they? :wink:
As far as I'm concerned, to add a Shianti-trained wizard class to the game at this point of Magnamund's history would only cheapen Grey Star's story. He wouldn't be special anymore, same as Lone Wolf wouldn't be if more Kai lords had survived the massacre on Fehmarn. And I'm rather sure that I'm not alone with that opinion.
But before we keep discussing this, one question to you: What exactly do you hope for when you ask for such a character class? Does the background fascinate you, or do you just want a character who can use these magical powers?
If the latter should be your main interest, then Arandur, Chrono_hal, Redlaco and myself are probably on the wrong track, argumentation-wise. Sorry about that.
But you do have to realize that the Mongoose folks have to stay true to the setting while creating the game - they did already include Shianti magicks in the game, and although I love Grey Star as a roleplaying character, I for one am not happy with that decision ... It's a background/flair thing again, as I would prefer magicians from Dessi to use Old Kingdom magic, which doesn't seem to even resemble Shianti magicks. It just doesn't seem true to the setting, IMHO. But that's another topic that has no place here.
I'm sure the Mongoose folks will have seen and noted your interest (and not yours alone!) in a Grey Star-inspired character class. If that doesn't set you at ease, then maybe we should ask the folks of Mongoose of an official statement about that matter ...
Paido
edit: Minor corrections.
First off, as I stated in another thread, I actually prefer the Greystar character to Lone Wolf, can’t say as to why, perhaps it was the flavor of those four gamebooks, but I found them to be much more interesting to me as a player and a reader. The use of Evocation in the Prison… let’s just say, damn that was fun. 
It is true that I may have been a tad agitated by having my post called ridiculous, but I was hardly flaming you. The problem is that you had already made the call for a Shianti trained class (several folks have actually) and it is quite apparent that the Staff at Mongoose actually read these forums (one of the things I really like about this company -its commitment to its consumers/fans). So there is no doubt that they are aware of the fans interest in Greystar, one call for such a class is really all that is needed not the constant reminder in each thread that you want Greystar material, now.
The problem I have Xex was the nature in which you made the request. By stating it was UNFORGIVABLE for Mongoose to have left this class out is not actually a request, it is a criticism of the staff at Mongoose and a pretty unjust one really, given the default setting of the RPG (and the Greystar absence from it, due to the time period).
RPG companies are different to a lot of other consumer based industries because just like us these guys are gamers and fans too! They have the interests of the game at heart, and they are more than likely fans of Lone Wolf/Greystar also. You can see this in the way they have worked to capture the feel of the series in their work and they should be applauded for it rather than crucified for a single mistake (by your judgement). Instead of telling them they have made unforgivable mistakes you perhaps could (as Paido said) have asked for a simple official answer or perhaps for their reasoning behind this, instead you chose to take them to task without giving them a chance to explain.
And yes I too would dearly like to see information on the Shianti and the Greystar adventures, but I would like to see it done properly, given the respect such a portion of the tale deserves and not tacked on as a download or an afterthought class in the Core Rulebook.
Arandur
It is true that I may have been a tad agitated by having my post called ridiculous, but I was hardly flaming you. The problem is that you had already made the call for a Shianti trained class (several folks have actually) and it is quite apparent that the Staff at Mongoose actually read these forums (one of the things I really like about this company -its commitment to its consumers/fans). So there is no doubt that they are aware of the fans interest in Greystar, one call for such a class is really all that is needed not the constant reminder in each thread that you want Greystar material, now.
The problem I have Xex was the nature in which you made the request. By stating it was UNFORGIVABLE for Mongoose to have left this class out is not actually a request, it is a criticism of the staff at Mongoose and a pretty unjust one really, given the default setting of the RPG (and the Greystar absence from it, due to the time period).
RPG companies are different to a lot of other consumer based industries because just like us these guys are gamers and fans too! They have the interests of the game at heart, and they are more than likely fans of Lone Wolf/Greystar also. You can see this in the way they have worked to capture the feel of the series in their work and they should be applauded for it rather than crucified for a single mistake (by your judgement). Instead of telling them they have made unforgivable mistakes you perhaps could (as Paido said) have asked for a simple official answer or perhaps for their reasoning behind this, instead you chose to take them to task without giving them a chance to explain.
And yes I too would dearly like to see information on the Shianti and the Greystar adventures, but I would like to see it done properly, given the respect such a portion of the tale deserves and not tacked on as a download or an afterthought class in the Core Rulebook.
Arandur
Mongoose Doghouse
Mongoose
Hello all,
A couple of things I thought I should mention. Firstly, my thanks to all for calming this thread down a little. We were a little concerned that temperatures were running a little high! It all shows how important these topics are to all of us - but we don't want anyone getting upset.
The decisions concerning omitting a Grey Star-type character class were not made easily. As some have mentioned on this and other threads, it is very hard to allow such a unique character to become a class of his own. On the other hand, he and his magic are a staple flavour of Magnamund. Our compromise was the Magician of Dessi character class. Whilst we're aware that there is some contention concerning Old Kingdom and Shianti magic's correlations, we stuck with the formula presented in the 2nd Teaser PDF everyone can see on the main website. It is our way of balancing the two viewpoints (setting accuracy and setting flavour) without radically restructuring either of them.
At the end of the day, we can't please all of the people all of the time - but nevertheless we will always try. For this reason, by all means keep on with the suggestions concerning supplements. I do make notes
Have a nice day,
A couple of things I thought I should mention. Firstly, my thanks to all for calming this thread down a little. We were a little concerned that temperatures were running a little high! It all shows how important these topics are to all of us - but we don't want anyone getting upset.
The decisions concerning omitting a Grey Star-type character class were not made easily. As some have mentioned on this and other threads, it is very hard to allow such a unique character to become a class of his own. On the other hand, he and his magic are a staple flavour of Magnamund. Our compromise was the Magician of Dessi character class. Whilst we're aware that there is some contention concerning Old Kingdom and Shianti magic's correlations, we stuck with the formula presented in the 2nd Teaser PDF everyone can see on the main website. It is our way of balancing the two viewpoints (setting accuracy and setting flavour) without radically restructuring either of them.
At the end of the day, we can't please all of the people all of the time - but nevertheless we will always try. For this reason, by all means keep on with the suggestions concerning supplements. I do make notes
Have a nice day,
A
Anonymous
Guest
"First off, as I stated in another thread, I actually prefer the Greystar character to Lone Wolf, can’t say as to why, perhaps it was the flavor of those four gamebooks, but I found them to be much more interesting to me as a player and a reader. The use of Evocation in the Prison… let’s just say, damn that was fun. "
I pesonally perferred the use of elementalism; the earth elemental was cool. Evocation was much more useful and cooler in the second book though.
Anyways, again, the uforgiven thing I can understand seems over the top, but I stand by it. I was just bothered that I was simply making a request, and then I get beleagured by Ariandur all of a sudden, even though I did not ask for anyone else to judge my posts. Lets just stop arguing ok. (hmm, it seems we have...)
Anyway, I have already said the LW book will be top notch; I have been following it for a loooong while now. I was pleased with the previews, (both), and again like I said, I loved the dessi class. However, since mongoose mentioned they would do magik of magamund if LW sold well, I thought It would be nice to get their attantion early so they can squeeze in a grey star like class. I do not at all mean a half-baked atttempt like someone here mentioned, but a proper planned out class, compete with elder magiks (higher magiks) progression.
Thank you mongoose bob for responding btw, and thank you for saying you are reading and taking note. Please do consider a shanti trained sorceror as a valid, much demanded class, and I hope you will be able to squeeze it in the mOm supplement. If so, do let us know, so we can let go of pented up breaths.
[/i]
I pesonally perferred the use of elementalism; the earth elemental was cool.
Evocation was much more useful and cooler in the second book though. Anyways, again, the uforgiven thing I can understand seems over the top, but I stand by it. I was just bothered that I was simply making a request, and then I get beleagured by Ariandur all of a sudden, even though I did not ask for anyone else to judge my posts. Lets just stop arguing ok. (hmm, it seems we have...)
Anyway, I have already said the LW book will be top notch; I have been following it for a loooong while now. I was pleased with the previews, (both), and again like I said, I loved the dessi class. However, since mongoose mentioned they would do magik of magamund if LW sold well, I thought It would be nice to get their attantion early so they can squeeze in a grey star like class. I do not at all mean a half-baked atttempt like someone here mentioned, but a proper planned out class, compete with elder magiks (higher magiks) progression.
Thank you mongoose bob for responding btw, and thank you for saying you are reading and taking note. Please do consider a shanti trained sorceror as a valid, much demanded class, and I hope you will be able to squeeze it in the mOm supplement. If so, do let us know, so we can let go of pented up breaths.
[/i]
A
Anonymous
Guest
The poster above was me btw.
Tell you what; I'll make you the prmise you wish (with a caveat):
If I am tapped to write the Magic of Magnamuch sourcebook, I will be certain to create the Shianti Sorcerer character class for those wishing to play a Grey Star like character.
After all, Magnamund is a big place. If Shasark did not go into exile with the others, it is feasable that a few others also stayed out. These Shianti might well have taken apprentices from the "lesser" race of humans. Also, Grey Star may well have begun training apprentices as successors to his realm.
The possibilities in the Lone Wolf game are endless...
-August
If I am tapped to write the Magic of Magnamuch sourcebook, I will be certain to create the Shianti Sorcerer character class for those wishing to play a Grey Star like character.
After all, Magnamund is a big place. If Shasark did not go into exile with the others, it is feasable that a few others also stayed out. These Shianti might well have taken apprentices from the "lesser" race of humans. Also, Grey Star may well have begun training apprentices as successors to his realm.
The possibilities in the Lone Wolf game are endless...
-August
adgramaine
Mongoose
Mongoose August said:
(distinct loud thump)
Now I know I'm still asleep and dreaming...either that or I hit my head too hard when I fell out of my chair!
I know its been said my other times on many other threads, but man, Mongoose rocks. No where else have I ever heard of this much a commitment to the fans. Now that I have repeated others before me (again) Thanks, August. I know it isnt a done deal, but the idea enough if too cool for words
A
Anonymous
Guest
Thank you very much August. Yeah, mongoose really is great; the SOC already proved it, as does the rulemasters forum (something which no other company provides to my knowledge)and so does this.
Thanks again August, and goose's in general, it means a lot. I really dig the GS books, as do many. If, by any chance, you need some feedback about char prgression or anything, let me know, as I did think up a SS class myself. (ofcourse I am sure you are more than capable of doing it yourself, as is anyone whos read the books, but just trying to be nice.)
Now to go and start lobbying for august to be allowed to work on mOm. Hmmm, now wheres that cardboard slogan... *wanders off*
Thanks again August, and goose's in general, it means a lot. I really dig the GS books, as do many. If, by any chance, you need some feedback about char prgression or anything, let me know, as I did think up a SS class myself. (ofcourse I am sure you are more than capable of doing it yourself, as is anyone whos read the books, but just trying to be nice.)
Now to go and start lobbying for august to be allowed to work on mOm. Hmmm, now wheres that cardboard slogan... *wanders off*
Winter Wolf
Mongoose
Scary thought possibly these Shianti wizards were trained by Shazarak himself in the early Taklakot days. :shock:
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