Life Support Costs for Barracks and Small Cabins

[DFW]

If you are a windows user, PDF-XChange Viewer will allow you to white-over/type over your changes (among many other annotation features).

It is a fairly lean, but full featured free program (that has a portable unzip option as well) - plus it allows poster printouts like the full Acrobat app.

Very cool. Thanks BP. Can also use to add errata data.

 

[BP]

Glad to help.

Hopefully have some time next month, so I can 'crack' the PDFs from that program and extract just the changes (been wanting to for a while).

This would allow one to easily update changes between editions as well as share with others...

 

[Egil Skallagrimsson]

When did the 600CR, very light, rescue bubble (p97)become the 100,000CR escape pod displacing 0.5 dtons (p 111)?

Escape Pod, 100,000 CR, lifesupport for 1 person for 24 hours, able to accomodate 2 persons at a squeeze (12 hours life support), med kit including 2 doses of fast drug, rescue beacon, battery power (probably an advanced thermal battery) for 3 months (to run beacon,computer and keep tempr up enough to stop the passengers freezing), specialised computer running a basic flight program that can be set to home towards gravity (i.e. a planet), or just to bob about in space. Able to enter an atmosphere and make, under the computers auto contol, a safe landing. Small reaction drives able to stablise the pod, make one 15 minute 0.5G burn, and/or control a landing.

Money well spent?

Egil

 

[BP]

Take it that is your own write up?

 

[CosmicGamer]

One can always use a suit with no skill, just with extra DMS. Normally the DM is -3, but armour is an exception at -2 for each missing skill level (so -4 for TL 8 suits, and only -2 for TL 12+).

Factoring in TL of the suit, the process of 'donning' the suit can be classified as Routine (TL 8+), Easy (TL 12+) or Simple (TL 14+). The definition of an Easy task is '...activating an unfamiliar device that has a clear and simple interface.'. At higher TLs (book states TL 14), putting on a suit is basically putting on clothing with a 'hat' - the suit automatically sealing and enabling life support functions or informing the occupant of what needs to be done.

For TL 8, with Vacc 1 requirement, this would make the net DM only -2 before any characteristic DMs. For TL 12+, this would completely eliminate the negative skill DM. At TL 14, the difficulty might be Simple - so the starting DM would be +2.

An 'emergency suit' might be even easier to don and use than normal - say Vacc 0 at TL 8 and no skill required at TL 12+ (with a lower armour value and possibly shorter air duration like 3 hours). Additionally, at higher TLs, such suits could offer automatic cryoberth features that kick in if air is low or suit integrity is compromised (impacts, tears, radiation, etc.).

I discuss this in a new Vacc Suit thread.

 

[Egil Skallagrimsson]

Take it that is your own write up?

Yes, well apart from the cost and the displacement, but not, I think, an unreasonable write up (though we can quibble about how much life support, and the limited manoeuvre capability). After all, that sci-fi staple the escape pod is usually some robust metal coffin, not a fragile plastic ball.

For all the reasons mentioned by others, the 300CR rescue bubble is going to have a very limited use in space (though will be very useful for water worlds!)

Egil

 

[rust]

Since even TL 5 oxygen tanks last for 6 hours (Central Supply Catalogue
page 154) and a higher technology would make a higher pressure of the
oxygen possible, I think that one can safely assume that the oxygen in
a high tech rescue device should last for 8 hours at least.

 

[Egil Skallagrimsson]

Yes, though considering how long a rescue is likely to take, even 8 hours seems a too limited.

Basically baling out in a rescue bubble is absolutely the last, most desperate, resort, and likely to be your final decision.

Egil

 

[DFW]

Yes, though considering how long a rescue is likely to take, even 8 hours seems a too limited.

Basically baling out in a rescue bubble is absolutely the last, most desperate, resort, and likely to be your final decision.

Egil

I agree. Probably the only way it can usefully be used in a military conflict where you have friendly ships close by already looking for survivers

 

[rust]

I agree. Probably the only way it can usefully be used in a military conflict where you have friendly ships close by already looking for survivers

I could also imagine scout ships operating in units of at least two ships,
even merchant ships travelling in convoys in dangerous regions - in our
real world history it was quite common to sail in groups of ships instead
of alone to have a helping hand nearby in case of a desaster.

 

[DFW]

in our real world history it was quite common to sail in groups of ships instead of alone to have a helping hand nearby in case of a desaster.

Yes, I can see Free Trader captains checking with others in port to pull together a "convey" comprised of ships heading to system X.

 

[BP]

Yep, rescue bubbles put me in mind of a wet suit and life vest as 'survival' gear if one falls into the rough, freezing waters off an offshore oil platform during a storm.

 

[MektonZero]

in our real world history it was quite common to sail in groups of ships instead of alone to have a helping hand nearby in case of a desaster.

Yes, I can see Free Trader captains checking with others in port to pull together a "convey" comprised of ships heading to system X.

As a Captain, I'd probably do it for the outbound leg out of the gravity well. As far as jumping to another system, that seems easy to abuse. Any of the other captains working with/for a pirate could send a laser signal out of the gravity well to a messenger ship which jumps to the destination with the inbound coordinates and the second you show up in the target system the whole convoy gets jumped by a band of pirates.

 

[rust]

As far as jumping to another system, that seems easy to abuse. Any of the other captains working with/for a pirate could send a laser signal out of the gravity well to a messenger ship which jumps to the destination with the inbound coordinates and the second you show up in the target system the whole convoy gets jumped by a band of pirates.

Hmmm ... since it is extremely difficult to keep a merchant ship's take off
from a planet and its destination secret (hard to find passengers if you do
not tell them when you will go where), it would be just as easy for the pi-
rates' agents to inform the messenger ship, and thereby the pirates, that
potential prey is on its way.

So the only difference of a convoy would be that the pirates would have
to fight several merchant ships at the same time instead of only one, and
in my view this would be a significant advantage for the merchants, not for
the pirates.

 

[BP]

Prior to MGT, my Traveller experience was limited to CT, and even then just the first 7~8 books and some JTAS/Challenge articles. Somewhere along the way I got the impression of the following jump characteristics:

1. Time was ~ 1 week, but varied somewhat.
2. Arrival location in system was not exact - other than 'natural' tendency to exit jump outside 100D limits (limiting collisions)
3. Destination was hard to determine, though jump 'signature' and heading might provide some clue based on knowledge of nearby systems and ship capability.

MGT Core, at least, seems to support #1 & #2 (on pg 141):
...always stays in Jump Space for roughly one week (148+6d6 hours).
...tends to arrive close to the target world, but outside or on the verge of the hundred-diameter limit
Not sure about 'jump tracking'...

A caveat of the #1 is that 'fleets' would be very vulnerable when jumping in - due to 100D restriction and 'variability' of actual time and thus location of arrival of the fleet assets. Not to mention, #2 above in terms of precision of arrival location.

It is thus possible that 're-assembling' a fleet could take 36 hours or more (depending on final separation and M-drive capabilities).

 

[Egil Skallagrimsson]

Prior to MGT, my Traveller experience was limited to CT, and even then just the first 7~8 books and some JTAS/Challenge articles. Somewhere along the way I got the impression of the following jump characteristics:

1. Time was ~ 1 week, but varied somewhat.
2. Arrival location in system was not exact - other than 'natural' tendency to exit jump outside 100D limits (limiting collisions)
3. Destination was hard to determine, though jump 'signature' and heading might provide some clue based on knowledge of nearby systems and ship capability.

MGT Core, at least, seems to support #1 & #2 (on pg 141):
...always stays in Jump Space for roughly one week (148+6d6 hours).
...tends to arrive close to the target world, but outside or on the verge of the hundred-diameter limit
Not sure about 'jump tracking'...

A caveat of the #1 is that 'fleets' would be very vulnerable when jumping in - due to 100D restriction and 'variability' of actual time and thus location of arrival of the fleet assets. Not to mention, #2 above in terms of precision of arrival location.

It is thus possible that 're-assembling' a fleet could take 36 hours or more (depending on final separation and M-drive capabilities).

Oddly enough, the problem of re-assembling a fleet reflects similar problems in the age of sail, when bad weather and poor visibility often split up convoys. It is hard to see that the first merchants out of jump will spend hours hanging around at the 100d limit, rather than just making the 5 hour run to the surface. If they do, your system must have such a bad reputation that the merchies probably shouldn't be there.

You can play the odds a bit by staggering the jump times of the ships, i.e. the most combat capable (that gazelle escort that someone bribed into paying a courtesy visit to the dangerous system) jumps 24 hours before anybody else, and so is likely to be in position to provide cover (lets hop there are no inaccuarate jumps)

Egil

Egil

 

[Egil Skallagrimsson]

I agree. Probably the only way it can usefully be used in a military conflict where you have friendly ships close by already looking for survivers

I could also imagine scout ships operating in units of at least two ships,
even merchant ships travelling in convoys in dangerous regions - in our
real world history it was quite common to sail in groups of ships instead
of alone to have a helping hand nearby in case of a desaster.

Yes, there are some real world examples of this, but also plenty of examples of the other when merchants just want to get a move on and are not prepared to spend weeks waiting for everybody to turn up. Commercial pressures are likely to be important, as well as willingness to take risks.

Look at the piracy emanating from Somalia in recent years, even in potentially dangerous waters merchants plod on regardless, and in most cases are not intercepted.

Egil

 

[Captain Jonah]

Fleet jumps for your convoys. All ships match vectors and a single jump plot is run and all ships use that one. Best done with that ex navy astrogator you found looking for work a while ago. Popular with the Navy but needs the awfull MonT jump rules fixing as regards to making the jump roll.

Convoys where there is a clear threat to the merchants yes but done properly. A bunch of merchants who just head off in the same direction together then do seperate jumps deserve what ever happens to them.

If you come in on the 100D limit there should be lots of friendly or at least neutrals around or close so why risk time sensitive cargos by waiting. Of course if you come in alone 100,000,000 km from the world because your Engineer 0 needs a map to find his way to work each day then you are unlikely to sit still waiting for anyone else to maybe arrive.
Tight beam the planet and run for it.

Escape pods. We can make stuff now at tech 8 (ish) that has a better duration than the balls and pods listed in the rules. The rescue ball seems to have little more than the air inside the ball when it inflates.

With the 0.5 ton pods you should be looking at scrubers and filters giving at least a week of air and with a med kit containing a few doses of Medical "fast" to slow down resperation and thus air use. The real limit on these pods should be water not air and even there you can have a small filtration system to recover sweat and other fluids to convert back to drinking water. A small battery pack to trickle feed your life support and a beacon with solar converters on the outside of the pod. It should be entirely possible to find pods with the beacons still running a year after the occupant dies of thirst.

Traveller. 1970s version of 1950s tech published in 2010. Suspend disbelief and wave hands a lot

 

[rust]

Look at the piracy emanating from Somalia in recent years, even in potentially dangerous waters merchants plod on regardless, and in most cases are not intercepted.

Well, the great majority of all merchant ships that come near the Somali
coast do travel in escorted convoys.

Just an example, it is easy to find a lot more:
http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20100811/160159806.html

Those who prefer to travel alone are only the ones who make it into the
news most often, because they are the ones who get attacked by the pi-
rates.

 

[DFW]

Those who prefer to travel alone are only the ones who make it into the news most often, because they are the ones who get attacked by the pirates.

Well at least there is still one country that's willing to take them out if one of their country's flagged ships gets taken. Notice, no more ships of that country have been touched? Even pirates understand dead...