High and Luxury Staterooms Life Support

[JNJ]

Hi,

In Core 2022, High and Luxury Staterooms are described on page 186 and Life Support Costs are detailed on page 154 :

- "Each stateroom on a ship costs Cr1000 every Maintenance Period"
- "Each person on board a ship who is not in a low berth will cost an additional Cr1000 every Maintenance Period in life support costs"

But in High Guard 2022, page 51, High Stateroom Life Support Cost is Cr3000 and Luxury Stateroom is Cr5000

This increase in Life Support Cost seems understandable as better services are provided but I think it is the 1st time I see it in any edition and I am surprised it is not in Core 2022 as it can greatly change a passenger liner benefits for example.

What Life Support Costs do you use for High and Luxury Staterooms ? Cr1000 for all, or Cr3000 and Cr5000 ?

Thanks.

 

[Arkathan]

HG is the more detailed rule set, and takes precedence over the basic core rules.
The High and luxury staterooms are larger, and as you said, have more/more expensive services
1000Cr for each person on board is in addition to the stateroom costs.

 

[JNJ]

HG is the more detailed rule set, and takes precedence over the basic core rules.
The High and luxury staterooms are larger, and as you said, have more/more expensive services
1000Cr for each person on board is in addition to the stateroom costs.

Thanks Arkathan, I agree, it seems logic.
Hope it will be updated in a next Core 22 PDF and taken in account in a future (hopefully) Merchant Prince !

 

[Terry Mixon]

Thanks Arkathan, I agree, it seems logic.
Hope it will be updated in a next Core 22 PDF and taken in account in a future (hopefully) Merchant Prince !

I hope the eventual High Guard 202? Update will make things even more detailed. That could come before a Core Rulebook update and set the tone.

 

[swordtart]

High and Luxury will significantly impact your profitability if you don't charge more for the exclusivity. Not only is the life support more, but you can fit less of them into the same space. Double Whammy!

 

[Condottiere]

Life support has three basics (for humans):

1. Oxygen

2. Water

3. Climate control

The rest is gravy.

 

[phavoc]

Hi,

In Core 2022, High and Luxury Staterooms are described on page 186 and Life Support Costs are detailed on page 154 :

- "Each stateroom on a ship costs Cr1000 every Maintenance Period"
- "Each person on board a ship who is not in a low berth will cost an additional Cr1000 every Maintenance Period in life support costs"

But in High Guard 2022, page 51, High Stateroom Life Support Cost is Cr3000 and Luxury Stateroom is Cr5000

This increase in Life Support Cost seems understandable as better services are provided but I think it is the 1st time I see it in any edition and I am surprised it is not in Core 2022 as it can greatly change a passenger liner benefits for example.

What Life Support Costs do you use for High and Luxury Staterooms ? Cr1000 for all, or Cr3000 and Cr5000 ?

Thanks.

What that's saying, in very imprecise terms, is that your ACTUAL life support costs (i.e. water filtration and air purification) are the same for every sophont onboard. A person can only consume so much air and water before they must recycle it, and large, ritzy rooms don't consume more air/water (ok, the ones with cascading waterfalls and large fish tanks may...).

What drives the costs here is the expendables - the food and beverages that cost far more for the luxury passengers than normal people. Someone paying Cr10k for stateroom is going to expect meals to be of high quality, the alcohol to be of high quality, and the snacks and service to just as high. No Hot Pockets for these people!

This actually brings up an interesting segue. I really don't think you could have super-expensive cabins aboard a ship without also having a larger than normal support staff (24x7 service) as well as having a formal cooking area with a live chef to make these fantastic meals (maybe no sommelier?). That's more than just a steward skill, that's going to be someone specialized in knowing how to prepare and cook some exotic cuisine. In THEORY social standing should drive a lot of this, but as we know, the US Commander in Chief is a big fan of McDonalds fare, so I would rate him the exception to the rule there. One would expect many bottles of Dom Perignon 55 (or it's equivalent) on ice as well as fancy wines for dinner courses and other higher-cost alcohol or drugs (legal or otherwise).

Has anyone ever sat down to try and jot down what they'd expect from that sort of service level?

 

[Condottiere]

Big red button for instant Pepsi delivery.

Presumably, in a washed glass, gloved hand, silver tray, and a lemon slice.

 

[actionman]

Big red button for instant Pepsi delivery.

Presumably, in a washed glass, gloved hand, silver tray, and a lemon slice.

And your fresher towels folded in the shapes of animals.

 

[Condottiere]

Apparently, it sees a lot of use.

Especially, in the early hours of the morning.

 

[actionman]

HG is the more detailed rule set, and takes precedence over the basic core rules.
The High and luxury staterooms are larger, and as you said, have more/more expensive services
1000Cr for each person on board is in addition to the stateroom costs.

In Core 2022, High and Luxury Staterooms are described on page 186 and Life Support Costs are detailed on page 154 :

- "Each stateroom on a ship costs Cr1000 every Maintenance Period"
- "Each person on board a ship who is not in a low berth will cost an additional Cr1000 every Maintenance Period in life support costs"

But in High Guard 2022, page 51, High Stateroom Life Support Cost is Cr3000 and Luxury Stateroom is Cr5000

Has anyone ever sat down to try and jot down what they'd expect from that sort of service level?

The rules are the rules, but I have my doubts about how they arrived at those numbers.

I looked at some luxury cruises just now, and its about $6200 USD or less for a 7 day cruise. This is for above 5 star luxury on a dedicated luxury yacht. You don't even eat, you have "gastronomical experiences" with "signature cuisine" when you're not getting pampered in the spa between naps in your "Balinese dream bed".

Voyages - SeaDream Yacht Club

seadream.com

Service - SeaDream Yacht Club

Highly Personalized, Award-Winning Service: SeaDream’s 5-star service is second to none.

seadream.com

So, if a luxury stateroom is 5000Cr, and it's not even on a dedicated luxury cruise yacht, it had better be more amazing than amazing. But, I think it's more likely that the numbers are simply made up or serve as a money sink to keep player characters from getting too rich too fast.

 

[Arkathan]

The rules are the rules, but I have my doubts about how they arrived at those numbers.

I looked at some luxury cruises just now, and its about $6200 USD or less for a 7 day cruise. This is for above 5 star luxury on a dedicated luxury yacht. You don't even eat, you have "gastronomical experiences" with "signature cuisine" when you're not getting pampered in the spa between naps in your "Balinese dream bed".

Voyages - SeaDream Yacht Club

seadream.com

Service - SeaDream Yacht Club

Highly Personalized, Award-Winning Service: SeaDream’s 5-star service is second to none.

seadream.com

So, if a luxury stateroom is 5000Cr, and it's not even on a dedicated luxury cruise yacht, it had better be more amazing than amazing. But, I think it's more likely that the numbers are simply made up or serve as a money sink to keep player characters from getting too rich too fast.

The rules hint at, but do not define, conditions that increase the happiness of passengers and reputation of the ship by adding amenities. If you have luxury staterooms, you should probably have enough space in a gourmet kitchen to accommodate them, an appropriate entertainment system and a pool or biosphere - at a minimum.
This allows you to charge more for the room.
If you figure on two jumps per month and are charging more than the combined life support costs you are still making money.
But, reality check, luxury cruise liners are not usually compatible with Travelling... Unless the Travellers are using an NPC ship as transportation.

 

[Condottiere]

There's seems to be one type of offer, where staying on a cruise ship is cheaper than maintaining a household.

So, if you're either retired or a digital nomad, you can go around the world, and save money.

 

[Bense]

Modern cruise ships on a seven day cruise usually don't keep their passengers aboard for more than a day or two at the most. They often stop in a different port every day. Starships in jump obviously can't do this.

The advertised cost of a cruise can also be deceptive - most lines offer plenty of additional services for additional fees, like guided shore excursions, drink packages, specialty meals, onboard casinos, onboard giftshops, exclusive onboard shows or activities, etc.

 

[swordtart]

There are also plenty of alternative modes of transport available other than the cruise ship. The hotel aspect of the ship is an essential element of the trip. You could get there faster and cheaper by air, or ship to port and then overland to the ultimate destination.

In Traveller the Starship is the only option. You have alternative suppliers but no alternative method of trasnport. Passengers have to pay at least as much as their freight equivalent so you need the freight rate for their Stateroom plus any common areas in addition to the life support costs. Low passengers are the exception since their rate is already greater than the freight rate.

 

[phavoc]

The rules are the rules, but I have my doubts about how they arrived at those numbers.

I looked at some luxury cruises just now, and its about $6200 USD or less for a 7 day cruise. This is for above 5 star luxury on a dedicated luxury yacht. You don't even eat, you have "gastronomical experiences" with "signature cuisine" when you're not getting pampered in the spa between naps in your "Balinese dream bed".

Voyages - SeaDream Yacht Club

seadream.com

Service - SeaDream Yacht Club

Highly Personalized, Award-Winning Service: SeaDream’s 5-star service is second to none.

seadream.com

So, if a luxury stateroom is 5000Cr, and it's not even on a dedicated luxury cruise yacht, it had better be more amazing than amazing. But, I think it's more likely that the numbers are simply made up or serve as a money sink to keep player characters from getting too rich too fast.

Somewhere I have the list of monthly costs (averages, obviously) based up SOC. In some ways you could divide that, probably by a 1/3rd or 1/4, and come up with something approaching what you'd expect to pay in food costs. But this gets complicated fast, as ships aren't necessarily the end users so they could qualify for discounts the average person does not get when buying any luxury food or wine product. Then again they have some added issues (ex - given a choice between free booze and free top shelf booze, most will pick top shelf 'cause it's free! - rich people would expected to expect the same for the prices they pay. And for good reason!).

I think paying for the 'apartment' in an A380 for a 12-14hr tips is somewhere around $25k (possibly more these days). A 1st class ticket on Emirate can run you $8-$10k for 14hrs. There's a limit to just how much food and booze you can stuff yourself with in that timeframe (not to mention they'll cut you off).

A cruise ship is probably a closer analog to an interstellar starship. A better comparison might be the cabin costs of ships crossing the Atlantic in 1910s-1930s. A first class suite on the Titanic was, in today's dollars $130k. A first class cabin would be like $4,500. The game posits a flat rate for this sort of travel, though anyone who wants more depth could easily go crazy and come up with tables that give all sorts of costs for the luxury down to the lowest of passages (excluding popsicle class). I'd think you'd have premium named lines/ships that would charge extra for simple recognition (kind of like flying a LCC airline like Ryan Air vs Emirates).

Which is a good question.. HAS anyone done something like this and published it somewhere?

 

[phavoc]

Modern cruise ships on a seven day cruise usually don't keep their passengers aboard for more than a day or two at the most. They often stop in a different port every day. Starships in jump obviously can't do this.

The advertised cost of a cruise can also be deceptive - most lines offer plenty of additional services for additional fees, like guided shore excursions, drink packages, specialty meals, onboard casinos, onboard giftshops, exclusive onboard shows or activities, etc.

Bajeezus is this a truthful statement! And, sadly, it seems to be creeping into all modes of transport. I've seem some of the new proposed "high capacity" airline seating - might as well start travelling as freight! And I'm sure they'll start a fee soon - access to the restroom is X, oh, you want toilet paper? That will be X+2 (per sheet). If you want to wash afterwards that's X+3 for the water. Flushes MAY be free... but who knows? I'm sure some guy in marketing will come up with a slogan to charge you to flush your own crap down.

 

[Arkathan]

Somewhere I have the list of monthly costs (averages, obviously) based up SOC. In some ways you could divide that, probably by a 1/3rd or 1/4, and come up with something approaching what you'd expect to pay in food costs. But this gets complicated fast, as ships aren't necessarily the end users so they could qualify for discounts the average person does not get when buying any luxury food or wine product. Then again they have some added issues (ex - given a choice between free booze and free top shelf booze, most will pick top shelf 'cause it's free! - rich people would expected to expect the same for the prices they pay. And for good reason!).

I think paying for the 'apartment' in an A380 for a 12-14hr tips is somewhere around $25k (possibly more these days). A 1st class ticket on Emirate can run you $8-$10k for 14hrs. There's a limit to just how much food and booze you can stuff yourself with in that timeframe (not to mention they'll cut you off).

A cruise ship is probably a closer analog to an interstellar starship. A better comparison might be the cabin costs of ships crossing the Atlantic in 1910s-1930s. A first class suite on the Titanic was, in today's dollars $130k. A first class cabin would be like $4,500. The game posits a flat rate for this sort of travel, though anyone who wants more depth could easily go crazy and come up with tables that give all sorts of costs for the luxury down to the lowest of passages (excluding popsicle class). I'd think you'd have premium named lines/ships that would charge extra for simple recognition (kind of like flying a LCC airline like Ryan Air vs Emirates).

Which is a good question.. HAS anyone done something like this and published it somewhere?

Google says a restaurant should not pay more than 28 - 35% for consumables in order to stay profitable. I remember my former step-father saying that his restaurant used 17%... (His restaurant didn't last long.)
30% is an easy number to go with, though.

 

[Geir]

Bajeezus is this a truthful statement! And, sadly, it seems to be creeping into all modes of transport. I've seem some of the new proposed "high capacity" airline seating - might as well start travelling as freight! And I'm sure they'll start a fee soon - access to the restroom is X, oh, you want toilet paper? That will be X+2 (per sheet). If you want to wash afterwards that's X+3 for the water. Flushes MAY be free... but who knows? I'm sure some guy in marketing will come up with a slogan to charge you to flush your own crap down.

Next they'll put credit card readers next to the seat's overhead fans and lights.

 

[-Daniel-]

I know this is off topic, but I have often wondered how long until the cost to fly pushes people back to trains and buses?

Unlike out fictional world of space travel we do have alternatives.