Life Support Costs for Barracks and Small Cabins

[AndrewW]

Right you lot climb in this survival bubble, oh and don't talk and breath real slow. You'll be find, we will be back long before the hours worth of air runs out. :twisted:

At the cost of an escape pod over a rescue bubble I would hope it's more then just to fit it into the hull.

This covers the installation of rescue bubbles (see page 97) and other escape pods for the entire crew.

I assume that "other escape pods" is meant more as and other equipment. Which would include an increased air supply.

 

[rust]

Perhaps on a more traditional ship carrying passengers you can't shut things down on a per stateroom basis but for a colony ship on the return trip it should be able to shut down life support to the barracks that are now empty.

Yep, this is how I handle it. The costs of an empty return voyage are only
those of the crew's life support and wages, the share of the maintenance
costs and a little profit - no life support for empty barracks, since all they
require is a little power to keep them above zero degrees to avoid dama-
ge to the installations, but no air, water, food, light, gravity field or what-
ever while no person is there.

 

[DFW]

F Do any versions of Traveller discuss a difference in costs between an occupied and unoccupied stateroom? If so, please indicate the version and book where this is covered.

MT, Star ship operation manual Vol.1.

 

[Captain Jonah]

Hey DFW what page number, save me reading the whole book

A point to remember for staterooms, the life support costs of the stateroom are for the whole ship not just one room. Starships have no seperate life support, it comes wrapped into the staterooms durring design.

Its likely that all ships have a central life support system but its not done seperately with the hull, you get it via staterooms which are based on crew/passanger size and hence life support needs. Ala Gurps.

Say that life support is Cr1000 per person in staterooms and the other Cr1000 per person is food/drink/bedding/soap/dressing gowns/toilet goods etc that a ship needs. You can save on these costs if you have no passengers of crew needing them but you cannot realisticly turn off bits of life support as the whole ship suffers then.

A ship's life support can handle 2 per stateroom or one per two tons of cabin space. Less than that and the pumps and filters work a little less hard to scrub the air, but they are still woring and still need replacing.

 

[DFW]

Hey DFW what page number, save me reading the whole book

A point to remember for staterooms, the life support costs of the stateroom are for the whole ship not just one room. Starships have no seperate life support, it comes wrapped into the staterooms durring design.

Its likely that all ships have a central life support system but its not done seperately with the hull, you get it via staterooms which are based on crew/passanger size and hence life support needs. Ala Gurps.

Say that life support is Cr1000 per person in staterooms and the other Cr1000 per person is food/drink/bedding/soap/dressing gowns/toilet goods etc that a ship needs. You can save on these costs if you have no passengers of crew needing them but you cannot realisticly turn off bits of life support as the whole ship suffers then.

A ship's life support can handle 2 per stateroom or one per two tons of cabin space. Less than that and the pumps and filters work a little less hard to scrub the air, but they are still woring and still need replacing.

The way it would really work if the designers were thinking would be per person. Filters and such need replacing based on the "toxins" filtered, not the space. Scrubbers for instance. They degrade based on the amount of CO2 passed through them. No, it was laziness of thought. Other than "air", only consumables per person are the only monthly costs per stateroom.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

I can see the arguments above, thanks guys.

Here is what I think I will go with:

Cr 250 per ton of living space (Staterooms or barracks OR LUXURIES). This represents the ship costs for heating, air, gravity water etc. (that Cr 1000 per large stateroom) EVERY Month, regardless of occupancy

Cr 1000 per person for food and other perishables as well as those life support costs that are directly tied to the number of people. These costs are only used when the stateroom or barracks are actually occupied.

I could break down High, Mid and Barracks per person costs, but I don't think I want to worry that level of detail. YMMV

I included Luxury tonnage into the Living Space costs because they will need the air/gravity/heat etc like any other living space. That also adds an additional burden to having those luxuries. There needs to be a down side to having that stuff around.

 

[Captain Jonah]

I can see the arguments above, thanks guys.

Here is what I think I will go with:

Cr 250 per ton of living space (Staterooms or barracks OR LUXURIES). This represents the ship costs for heating, air, gravity water etc. (that Cr 1000 per large stateroom) EVERY Month, regardless of occupancy

Cr 1000 per person for food and other perishables as well as those life support costs that are directly tied to the number of people. These costs are only used when the stateroom or barracks are actually occupied.

I could break down High, Mid and Barracks per person costs, but I don't think I want to worry that level of detail. YMMV

I included Luxury tonnage into the Living Space costs because they will need the air/gravity/heat etc like any other living space. That also adds an additional burden to having those luxuries. There needs to be a down side to having that stuff around.

Good enough. Makes sense and easy to apply.

 

[hdan]

That opens up some fun possibilities for the standard Free Trader design.

Since the passenger deck is separate from the rest of the ship, you can "shut it down" to save the costs if nobody is using it, though it makes the area uninhabitable.

 

[DFW]

That opens up some fun possibilities for the standard Free Trader design.

Since the passenger deck is separate from the rest of the ship, you can "shut it down" to save the costs if nobody is using it, though it makes the area uninhabitable.

Just do it like MT. No use, no cost.

 

[hdan]

Since the passenger deck is separate from the rest of the ship, you can "shut it down" to save the costs if nobody is using it, though it makes the area uninhabitable.

Just do it like MT. No use, no cost.

Except that it wouldn't be per stateroom, it would be for the whole deck. That would open up room for designs with multiple passenger areas that could be selectively shut down, etc.

It's mostly a flavor thing. It's certainly easy enough to just decide that you only pay overhead for occupied staterooms, like I used to do in CT.

 

[rinku]

Still you need vacc suit skill for the suits but I would have thought that aside from the crew any regular traveller would have been through enough safety and evacuation drills to pick up vacc suit 0 after a while.

Only if they really wanted to. I agree that many NPC travellers would have chosen to pay attention... but others wouldn't have.

Having said that, for a survival situation it should be OK for a crewmember to assist someone into the suit (especially an emergency version designed for the process) and zip them up. They just get a -2 to checks perfomed anyway, so it may not be a major issue (I assume that simplified emergency vacc suits would only require Vacc-0 regardless of tech).

 

[BP]

One can always use a suit with no skill, just with extra DMS. Normally the DM is -3, but armour is an exception at -2 for each missing skill level (so -4 for TL 8 suits, and only -2 for TL 12+).

Factoring in TL of the suit, the process of 'donning' the suit can be classified as Routine (TL 8+), Easy (TL 12+) or Simple (TL 14+). The definition of an Easy task is '...activating an unfamiliar device that has a clear and simple interface.'. At higher TLs (book states TL 14), putting on a suit is basically putting on clothing with a 'hat' - the suit automatically sealing and enabling life support functions or informing the occupant of what needs to be done.

For TL 8, with Vacc 1 requirement, this would make the net DM only -2 before any characteristic DMs. For TL 12+, this would completely eliminate the negative skill DM. At TL 14, the difficulty might be Simple - so the starting DM would be +2.

An 'emergency suit' might be even easier to don and use than normal - say Vacc 0 at TL 8 and no skill required at TL 12+ (with a lower armour value and possibly shorter air duration like 3 hours). Additionally, at higher TLs, such suits could offer automatic cryoberth features that kick in if air is low or suit integrity is compromised (impacts, tears, radiation, etc.).

 

[Captain Jonah]

Plus you can use the "Aid Other" skill check to give pluses to the unskilled types as the stewards pick them up and stuff them in the suits

Had another thought about not paying life support for unused staterooms based on the use of central Scrubbers idea.

Ships Captain. What, these filters are still at 70% capacity. We spent half the month without passengers, 13 staterooms and just five us breathing the air. Why in hell should I replace them!

Imperial Bureaucrat (imported Bwap). Sir as it quite clearly says on page 1724, paragraph C, subsection 2 of the Imperial Starship Operating Regulations, 1095, amended version all air filters be subject to mandatory replacement at the end of their listed lifespan as noted according to the Imperial Life Support Registration and Documentation Act, 1101 updated version, page 714, section 6.

Your filters were fitted on 117-1105 and have a listed replacement date based on the clearly marked label of 152-1105. The reaming life of the unit is not a matter of discussion, you have life support filters fitted to your ship with a maximum use listed as five weeks.

Since today is 154-1105 your filters are in violation of page 1724, paragraph C, subsection 2 of the Imperial Starship Operating Regulations, 1095, amended version I have no choice but to declare your life support filters and associated equipment in violation of Imperial health and safety regulations and will therefore instruct the starport authorities to seize your faulty filters and associated equipment immediately.

Since this matter related to the air filtering and circulation system of your ship any and all pumps, filters, air transportation systems, pipes, tubes, vents and other such parts of your ship related to the handling and or movement of air through out your ship shall be clasified as associated equipment in this regard.

All siezed items will be returned upon payment in full of the fines for violation of the legislation previously mention, no reimbursement will be issued to cover reinstallation of seized equipment. Thumb print here, have a nice day.

:twisted:

 

[rust]

The Headlines
156-1105 Imperial safety inspector Blubb disappeared !
207-1105 Mummy of aquatic life form discovered on desert planet !

 

[phavoc]

Wouldn't you think that a civilization that has jump drives, fusion power plants and all those wonderful technological strides would be at least a little bit more advanced in life support technology? A life pod with just two hours of life support??? That's just plain fucking stupid.

The "rescue balls" that Nasa has for emergencies gives a person wrapped up in a friggin bubble ball 30 mins of support. That's with no life support machinery. And they are FAR smaller than a life pod.

I think this is another glaringly bad example of the rules being based in the 1970s (or maybe its just a case of the brain not connecting to the fingers when someone was typing this rule out).

 

[DFW]

I think this is another glaringly bad example of the rules being based in the 1970s (or maybe its just a case of the brain not connecting to the fingers when someone was typing this rule out).

Well, what do you expect when the rules also say that bricks can "glide" to a landing on a planet, chemical batteries put out twice the power of a fusion PP,
etc., etc..?

 

[BP]

Yep - laughed when I saw that one in the rulebook.

Lean more to 2 days myself - especially considering in system travel/misjumps...

 

[BP]

Well, what do you expect when the rules also say that bricks can "glide" to a landing on a planet, chemical batteries put out twice the power of a fusion PP, etc., etc..?

So true... more 'humor' from the rulebooks...

 

[DFW]

Well, what do you expect when the rules also say that bricks can "glide" to a landing on a planet, chemical batteries put out twice the power of a fusion PP, etc., etc..?

So true... more 'humor' from the rulebooks...

I think I'll crack my PDF's and start fixing...

 

[BP]

If you are a windows user, PDF-XChange Viewer will allow you to white-over/type over your changes (among many other annotation features).

It is a fairly lean, but full featured free program (that has a portable unzip option as well) - plus it allows poster printouts like the full Acrobat app.