League mix

[Reaverman]

According to my maths, a +3 means you'll win initiative over 80% of the time. The one turn in 5 that the Raiders win, 3AD is not going to destroy the Prefect unless you're increcibly lucky. The Prefect will be hitting the Battlewagon every turn.

Averages again. Play one hundred games and that will hold true. Play one and you're at the mercy of the dice gods again, and we all know luck goes in streaks.

It won't take much for those 3AD of heavy laser cannons to render the Prefect impotent or at least impair its performance enough to make the outcome less biased in the Centauri's favour. A no firing out of random arc critical could turn very ugly for a Prefect.

On top of that the weak traits on some of the Raiders' weapons don't matter against hull 6 so one of their big disadvantages just disappears.

Hang on, you cant go discounting the law of Averages, and then start making calculations you've just discounted. The facts are going to be pretty obvious, The Prefect out-ranges, and out guns the Battlewagon. The Prefect also does not have a Boresight weapon, so for the 8 out of 10 initiative rolls you make, the battle wagon is going to fail to get any major hits. Giving the Prefect 2-3 turns of unhindered fire.

If you are deploying your ships, and thinking "Oh great, I am going to lose again, his ship is so much better", then maybe thats where you are going wrong. Not enough PMA!

 

[Burger]

Remember you can't take fighters from a League race without taking at least one of their capital ships. For instance, if you want some Vree Tzymms you need a Vree ship first.

You can't? Can you give me a rules reference for that?

LBH

Its in the "combined league fleet" section in SFOS. Page 114, 5th bullet-point.

 

[Dennbok]

You can't? Can you give me a rules reference for that?

SFOS p114, sidebar:
"You may not purchase Auxiliary Craft from a fleet list unless you have already chosen a ship from the same fleet list"

:wink:

 

[lastbesthope]

Ta DB, I've never played as an LNAW fleet so I'm not so up on that sidebar

LBH

 

[Burger]

Hey I was first

 

[lastbesthope]

Sorry DPB, the page slipped when it loaded, thanks to you too.

LBH

 

[Burger]

np

 

[Dennbok]

Bah and humbug to my slow typing!

No worries LBH, and next time Burger! Next Time!!! :lol:

 

[Twin-Linked Aldades]

About those fighters...

First of, it IS NO LONGER placed within 3", but must touch the launching vessels base (SFOS page 10 - Advanced Auxiliary Craft / Deployment). I notice quite a few peeps still do the 3" thing in discussions...

And Book one (page may differ, i still have the edition with the Pak`Ma`ra in the fleetlists of Book Two, whom I believe are no longer in the later edition) states that on p17 on the subject of launching auxiliaries "In the next turn, the flight is free to act and is ..."

 

[Locutus9956]

Well as a brief comment on your list: I would consider dropping the Haliks in favour of some other stuff. I've tried all sorts of things with and against them and they just come across as a poor mans Chronos or Nova and that raid point would be better spent on two more Warbirds or maybe a Battlewagon. Simply the Halik looks decent enough on paper with its all round firepower and decent amount of hit points but its all interceptable, all short ranged and 36 hit points may LOOK alot but at hull 5 with no interceptors or any other defensive mechanism its simply not tough enough to plow into the middle of the enemy fleet and take advantage of all those arcs:

Basically the key to ships with realtively short ranged guns in all arcs (such as the Halik, Chronos, Nova, (there are others but Im not gonna list every one)) is to get in amongst the enemy so you have different targets in each arc thus maximising your firepower output. However to do this you are generally going to take quite a pounding in return so you need an edge, the EA ships do this admirably due to interceptors, sure beams ignore them but once you get in close like this its actually quite hard to bring beam weaponry to bear (most ships only have it in their forward or boresight arcs). (And yes inteceptors are not a bulletproof defence but the fact remains that all things being equal in a straight slugging match between a ships WITH interceptors and a ship without them the interceptor ship will win).

Basically, the Halik looks nice on paper (and I quite like the model too) but in practice Ive found it to be horribly outclassed by most other fleets equivalent ships, and fleets that dont have similar brawler ships will generally just blow it to pieces with long range beams instead

 

[Talisinbear]

so any comments on my list? whether I need multiles? and my league or dilger dilema?

not that some of the rules debate aren't fascinating.

Talisinbear

 

[Ripple]

Ack...you are right I totally missed the point.

League is my prefered fleet due to the large range of tactics and models available to you. But if all you have is the basic set and are not using Sky Full of Stars, as your questions on the Kaliva and the Xaak seem to indicate I would go with the Dilgar book and models.

The Dilgar are a straight forward fleet with a tremendous punch. Much of it is short ranged but you would also be fast for the most part and able to make very good leaps into the enemy, often on caf!.

If you can get SFoS, then I would go with league and a Brakiri box is an excellent start. This will give you enough to play the higher point games. For raid and smaller games you will need some fill-ins.

If you buy the Drazi Strikehawk/Warbird buy them in pairs. Individually they do not cause much damage. I would buy two of each and use them as squadrons to fill the Raid role since you chose not to take the Battlewagon.

The Brakiri halik model is better used as the SFoS Haltona, I would buy later. The basic box has enough otherwise.

Abbai cost you a -2 initiative so I would buy these later as well. Do not buy the Bimith until you are very familiar with the movement and tactics of the game, same with the Lakara. Both are hard to get the best out of and can be frustrating. Milani's rock though if you can take the penalty.

Vree, buy the Vaarl...can not emphasize this enough. You'll want three for raid games, four if you play battle.

fighter wise you will need a pack of Sky Serpents for the Strikehawks. They do not come with the hull sadly. If you were to take an independant wing (possibly viable in Arm. and in lower point skirmish/Patrol games) I would aim you at picking up the Tzymm Excellent fighter, best in the League for anti-ship duty outside of the slower sky serpent.

Ripple

 

[Talisinbear]

So

Abbadai are a detriment because they give a mxed fleet -2 ? Would be hard justifying they're use

The Vree sound like a one side wonder too

Dang picking a fleet is hard work. Maybe I'll just go Centari

Talisinbear

 

[Sock]

personally my advice is to get counters and the books needed to play whatever fleet you are considering. then just play around with those fleets a little and see what you like's style. I tried 4 fleets before I found the Drakh who meshed well with my playing stle in both attitude and performance.

Counters are the way to go, I'm telling you.

 

[Talisinbear]

I actually prefer researching

selecting, often based on if I like the minis and going from there.

The fun is adapting to the force you have

I'd hate to have every mini faction I play have the same style

So Cygnar in Warmachine might play one way, NeoSoviets in Vor another etc

I don't mind having to learn tactics to survive, but I do like a feel for whether the faction can work

Talisinbear

 

[Lord David the Denied]

You can't? Can you give me a rules reference for that?

LBH

Sky Full of Stars, page 114, Fleets of the Non-Aligned Worlds sidebar. Penultimate bullet point.

 

[Wulf Corbett]

Dang picking a fleet is hard work. Maybe I'll just go Centari

Let's see... League fleet...

Tough Fleet: Warbirds. Lots of them.

Fun Fleet: Sunhawks. Even more of them...

Squadron them up in half dozen lots for maximum firepower.

Wulf

 

[katadder]

i decided to do a fun sunhawks versus narn ina 2point quick raid, 6 sunhakws versus a t'loth and 2 ka'tocs. we crippled a ka'toc but that was it. one of the mag guns got a 6-6 crit and caused 48 damage to one of my ships was fun game but the sunhawks are just joke ships.

 

[Wulf Corbett]

i decided to do a fun sunhawks versus narn ina 2point quick raid, 6 sunhakws versus a t'loth and 2 ka'tocs. we crippled a ka'toc but that was it. one of the mag guns got a 6-6 crit and caused 48 damage to one of my ships was fun game but the sunhawks are just joke ships.

Not at all, they have some of the best armament of any Patrol class ship, and as good a Hull/Damage as most, plus one of the best Speed/Turns around. Above Patrol level, their main use is as initiative sinks, but they're not MEANT to operate above Patrol level. In a squadroned hunting pack they can do serious damage, and you do get a LOT of them!

Wulf

 

[Burger]

Now, you can get a strikehawk and 2 sunhawks for 1 raid point. Makes them a bit more attractive