League mix
- Thread starter Talisinbear
- Start date
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
I've never actually seen the rule written down anywhere, either, but several people have told me that's the case...
As for the Sky Serpent catapult launch, it gets you some free movement towards the enemy. Just don't catapult into AF weapons range... :wink:
As for the Sky Serpent catapult launch, it gets you some free movement towards the enemy. Just don't catapult into AF weapons range... :wink:
The impression my group got from the rulebook was that the fighters could act on the turn their launched. And ive heard people mention that Auxillary craft (important to use that distinction seeing as how i play the drakh) cannot act on the turn teir launched. Which could have a drastic change in how the games in my group play out.
it doesnt specifically say they cant do anything, what it does say though is that a ship carrying auxillary craft may launcha flight at the end of its movement. auxillary craft are free to act normally next turn. this would also apply to drakh raiders, you couldnt power the ship forward then launch the raiders and get their full move too.
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
So it's an implication?
Captain Kremmen
Mongoose
Sounds like we need an official clarification. Looks like perhaps most people think fighters and all other auxilliary craft can't do ANYTHING on the turn they are launched they spend the turn appearing within 3 inches of the launching ship (8 for the sky serpent)
But a significant number of people think you can use them?
Personally I start all friendly games with all fighters launched it's just easier, but I realise that will not be the case on Saturday
Kremmen
But a significant number of people think you can use them?
Personally I start all friendly games with all fighters launched it's just easier, but I realise that will not be the case on Saturday
Kremmen
again it seems the rules lawyers trying to find a loophole :evil: if they can act freely next turn why say it if they can act freely the turn they are launched? stop trying to find loopholes people and actually read it and add some common sense. this isnt GW games where they leave ambiguety for you to exploit, its actually quite easy to read and undestand.
Locutus9956
Mongoose
I dont know if the wording was changed or not but it DOES specifically say in the original rules (and as far as I know in the later revisions too) that fighters may not do ANYTHING the turn they launch.
This has been clarified on numerous occasions (and yes it applies to drakh raiders too). The advantage of the catapult is you can deploy your fighters behind enemy ships etc or out of range of dogfighters etc.
But anyway, and stop me if Im wrong here but this thread is about what league ships work well together not another 'is the prefect fair or not' argument. I know things tend to go off the rails abit on these forums but sometimes it gets a bit out of hand:
Anyway, as already mentioned the Brakkiri have some pretty nasty ships at the higher PLs and their skirmish ships arent bad either but really for lower PLs the Drazi are the way to go. At raid youve got a few drazi varients but theyre not that great, the Halik isnt bad but its not that great either, the Vree Xill is an excellent raid ship but quite fragile if your facing opponents with decent long range firepower, the vree do however have some superb scout ships at patrol and skirmish. The Abbai Ive not really used so cant comment but on paper they look pretty decent. VERY tough if your opponent is short on beam weaponry too
As for the raiders, as has been mentioned the Battlewagon is actually a very good ship though Im not sure what the other 'decent ship' mentioned earlier is supposed to be as quite frankly the other two Raider ships in my experience really REALLY suck!
This has been clarified on numerous occasions (and yes it applies to drakh raiders too). The advantage of the catapult is you can deploy your fighters behind enemy ships etc or out of range of dogfighters etc.
But anyway, and stop me if Im wrong here but this thread is about what league ships work well together not another 'is the prefect fair or not' argument. I know things tend to go off the rails abit on these forums but sometimes it gets a bit out of hand:
Anyway, as already mentioned the Brakkiri have some pretty nasty ships at the higher PLs and their skirmish ships arent bad either but really for lower PLs the Drazi are the way to go. At raid youve got a few drazi varients but theyre not that great, the Halik isnt bad but its not that great either, the Vree Xill is an excellent raid ship but quite fragile if your facing opponents with decent long range firepower, the vree do however have some superb scout ships at patrol and skirmish. The Abbai Ive not really used so cant comment but on paper they look pretty decent. VERY tough if your opponent is short on beam weaponry too
As for the raiders, as has been mentioned the Battlewagon is actually a very good ship though Im not sure what the other 'decent ship' mentioned earlier is supposed to be as quite frankly the other two Raider ships in my experience really REALLY suck!
Talisinbear
Mongoose
So as a newbie which Vree ships are worth throwing in the mix ?
Talisinbear
Talisinbear
Talisinbear
Mongoose
One other query
Is a mixed league force generally stronger, or weaker than a Dilger force?
I am waffling between which way to go
Talisinbear
Is a mixed league force generally stronger, or weaker than a Dilger force?
I am waffling between which way to go
Talisinbear
Mixed League vs Dilgar...hmm...my weekly fight for a while...
Partly it really depends on what PL you are playing at. I find the league is a bit weak at raid but good at skirmish and battle.
Patrol - there is only one ship you should ever be taking here. Vaarl. Initiative sink with a 24 inch effect and good stealth to stay alive. You will be tempted by the Tiraca, its a solid patrol hull but dies to easily in anything above raid. Add in the -2 initiative and no abbai hull makes the mixed fleet setting.
Skirmish - Drazi Strikehawk/Warbird pairs have proven their worth to me. The hull 6 seems to be better than the hull 5/2interceptors on the Ikorta. Also the speed of 12, while often a problem for getting shots, means the Drazi can escape a bad position while the Ikorta/Brikorta cannot. If you are playing with the new fighter rules the Brikorta is useful for the two Falkosi though and the precise weapons are a nice addition to the fleet. Only other skirmish hull I would take in a mixed fleet is the Vaarka. Solid scout and has effective weapons if you need a late hitter, plus that lovely high stealth.
Raid - Haltona is a decent hull here if you can get two or more in a squadron. The bimith looks good on paper but rarely seems to make range on a target, even then vs hull 5 your looking at 8ish single damage hits before interceptors. Does that feel like raid level damage? Xill is solid but too fragile vs the double damage beams for me. If you are playing a game with hyperspace available I highly recomend it though. You do have the Solarhawk but only in a big game, too fragile for that cannon. If you do not shoot first you often do not shoot. Battlewagon is a fantastic choice here. Hull 6 with interceptors and a great beam for you PL (almost broken but the boresight fixes that).
Battle - some great ships here. Kaliva, queen of the fleet. Never run her alone, as she needs someone to soak the interceptors for her big lance shots. That she also has a beam and all round firepower is just gravy. Xaak, the perfect Kaliva consort. Hull six cover the only adequate damage/crew but the weapons loadouts and the manuever make this a solid ship. That the slow loaders are precise is the cherry on top. Stormfalcon I truely enjoy, but boresight dependant. One of these is the choice if you only get one battle choice, otherwise take two Kaliva's and call your opponents next of kin.
Carriers - seperated these out as they are really specialty. The Nightfalcon and the Brokados are the ones at battle but I have yet to make good use of them. This is largely due to the way fighters work. If you are going with the new rule the Brokados is a good choice both for the fleet carrier and the command bonus.
War - um...rarely even try here, but I do like the mine cruiser. It deals with things like ISA allied Vaarls very well. It's a specialty, unless you are facing an opponent likely to take hull 4, stealth, or whitestars I do not see the value. With the new fighter rules I may change my mind. The base Tashkat I have not used enough, but feels guns light.
Summation for Dilgar fight -
Patrol - Vaarl (needed for redirect on the boresights, steath initiative sink)
Skirmish - Strikhawk/Warbird pairs or Ikorata (boarding)/Brikorta (fighter)
Raid - Battlewagon, Haltona, Solarhawk, Xill in decending order of desirability
Battle - Kaliva, more Kaliva, maybe a Stormfalcon or Xaak
War - go back to battle and get you some more Kaliva
Ripple
Partly it really depends on what PL you are playing at. I find the league is a bit weak at raid but good at skirmish and battle.
Patrol - there is only one ship you should ever be taking here. Vaarl. Initiative sink with a 24 inch effect and good stealth to stay alive. You will be tempted by the Tiraca, its a solid patrol hull but dies to easily in anything above raid. Add in the -2 initiative and no abbai hull makes the mixed fleet setting.
Skirmish - Drazi Strikehawk/Warbird pairs have proven their worth to me. The hull 6 seems to be better than the hull 5/2interceptors on the Ikorta. Also the speed of 12, while often a problem for getting shots, means the Drazi can escape a bad position while the Ikorta/Brikorta cannot. If you are playing with the new fighter rules the Brikorta is useful for the two Falkosi though and the precise weapons are a nice addition to the fleet. Only other skirmish hull I would take in a mixed fleet is the Vaarka. Solid scout and has effective weapons if you need a late hitter, plus that lovely high stealth.
Raid - Haltona is a decent hull here if you can get two or more in a squadron. The bimith looks good on paper but rarely seems to make range on a target, even then vs hull 5 your looking at 8ish single damage hits before interceptors. Does that feel like raid level damage? Xill is solid but too fragile vs the double damage beams for me. If you are playing a game with hyperspace available I highly recomend it though. You do have the Solarhawk but only in a big game, too fragile for that cannon. If you do not shoot first you often do not shoot. Battlewagon is a fantastic choice here. Hull 6 with interceptors and a great beam for you PL (almost broken but the boresight fixes that).
Battle - some great ships here. Kaliva, queen of the fleet. Never run her alone, as she needs someone to soak the interceptors for her big lance shots. That she also has a beam and all round firepower is just gravy. Xaak, the perfect Kaliva consort. Hull six cover the only adequate damage/crew but the weapons loadouts and the manuever make this a solid ship. That the slow loaders are precise is the cherry on top. Stormfalcon I truely enjoy, but boresight dependant. One of these is the choice if you only get one battle choice, otherwise take two Kaliva's and call your opponents next of kin.
Carriers - seperated these out as they are really specialty. The Nightfalcon and the Brokados are the ones at battle but I have yet to make good use of them. This is largely due to the way fighters work. If you are going with the new rule the Brokados is a good choice both for the fleet carrier and the command bonus.
War - um...rarely even try here, but I do like the mine cruiser. It deals with things like ISA allied Vaarls very well. It's a specialty, unless you are facing an opponent likely to take hull 4, stealth, or whitestars I do not see the value. With the new fighter rules I may change my mind. The base Tashkat I have not used enough, but feels guns light.
Summation for Dilgar fight -
Patrol - Vaarl (needed for redirect on the boresights, steath initiative sink)
Skirmish - Strikhawk/Warbird pairs or Ikorata (boarding)/Brikorta (fighter)
Raid - Battlewagon, Haltona, Solarhawk, Xill in decending order of desirability
Battle - Kaliva, more Kaliva, maybe a Stormfalcon or Xaak
War - go back to battle and get you some more Kaliva
Ripple
If you go for the mixed league fleet, you will actually be building four smaller fleets.
That, and they historically whupped Dilgar @$$ with the aid of EA.
As to the Vree, thay have a load of really fun ships (you can hum the tune to Mars Attacks when your setting up, and sak Ack! lots, or there is always the butt probe references...). The ships you will be wanting to add to the League fleet are Vaarls; patrol level scouts with Stealth 5+ (they also have a variant in the skirmish level Vaarka), and Xills (as they also function as the Xaak Command Saucer). Xills are pretty nasty in their own right.
That, and they historically whupped Dilgar @$$ with the aid of EA.
As to the Vree, thay have a load of really fun ships (you can hum the tune to Mars Attacks when your setting up, and sak Ack! lots, or there is always the butt probe references...). The ships you will be wanting to add to the League fleet are Vaarls; patrol level scouts with Stealth 5+ (they also have a variant in the skirmish level Vaarka), and Xills (as they also function as the Xaak Command Saucer). Xills are pretty nasty in their own right.
Talisinbear
Mongoose
Great post ripple lots of good info
However, it misses my main question
If you were going to be competing against players with Vorlon, Minbar, EA forces etc would you want to run Dilger? Or would you want to run a mixed league fleet?
Since we are all just starting with B5 locally smaller starter box plus 2-3-4 minis are going to be the norm.
Also whee do I find the Kaliva? don't see that mini or the Xaak?
Talisinbear
However, it misses my main question
If you were going to be competing against players with Vorlon, Minbar, EA forces etc would you want to run Dilger? Or would you want to run a mixed league fleet?
Since we are all just starting with B5 locally smaller starter box plus 2-3-4 minis are going to be the norm.
Also whee do I find the Kaliva? don't see that mini or the Xaak?
Talisinbear
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
The Xaak is a Xill variant. No model for it but the Xill model. Kaliva is an Avioki variant, so uses that model.
Talisinbear
Mongoose
for mixed fleet how would this be
Brakiri box - 2 Tashkat advanced cruisers, 4 Avioki heavy cruisers, 4 Ikorta light assault cruisers and 36 Falkosi fighters.
Brakiri haliks
Drazi Strike Hawk
Drazi Warbird
Abbai Milani
Abbai Bimith
Abbai Lakara
would I need multiples of any of these?
is there a selection here that makes no sense?
would fighters besids falkoski make a good addition?
and still like a yes or no on whether mixed league is generally superior to dilger?
thanks
Brakiri box - 2 Tashkat advanced cruisers, 4 Avioki heavy cruisers, 4 Ikorta light assault cruisers and 36 Falkosi fighters.
Brakiri haliks
Drazi Strike Hawk
Drazi Warbird
Abbai Milani
Abbai Bimith
Abbai Lakara
would I need multiples of any of these?
is there a selection here that makes no sense?
would fighters besids falkoski make a good addition?
and still like a yes or no on whether mixed league is generally superior to dilger?
thanks
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
Remember you can't take fighters from a League race without taking at least one of their capital ships. For instance, if you want some Vree Tzymms you need a Vree ship first.
lastbesthope
Mongoose
Captain David the Denied said:
You can't? Can you give me a rules reference for that?
LBH
