Large Ships, Reduced Crew, and Additional Sensor Stations

[Terry Mixon]

So, while building some electronic warfare platforms, I ran into some contradictory rules (which I will mostly ignore to do what makes sense) and wanted to at least post about it so that the Mongeese can see and maybe errata the blasted things. The rules I'm dealing with revolve around the sensor operators and number of sensor stations.

Let's start with crew reduction, which I agree with.



All good and fine, and you'll not that sensor operators are included in the group of crew that can be reduced.

Yet then we come to the role of sensor operators and this where it indicates how many a ship has in operation based on size.



No crew reduction for sensor operators, and in a fight, one really wouldn't want fewer as that makes you vulnerable. I suppose the assumption is that you can chose specific ships to use crew reduction on sensor operators. Your supply ship likely doesn't need a full complement, after all.

And finally, you get to adding additional sensor stations. Perhaps very important when you need lots of electronic warfare.



Yet only ships of 7,500 tons or less can add additional sensor stations. This is stupid. Why can I make a 7,500 ton EW battle rider with 233 extra stations (and a total of 234 sensor actions) but my 1,000,000-ton Warmonger battle tender is limited to the 134 that comes from 1,000,000/7,500? The ship with all the space I care to dedicate to additional sensor stations is blocked from getting even a single one.

I'll ignore that last rule as it's ridiculous and think it should be errata'd, but I want to see if there are countervailing opinions.

 

[Condottiere]

The thing about redundancies, is that it increases the workload of the remaining staff.

I would say sensor operators, and gunners, are likely to remain the same number of personnel, as they man specific equipment.

Though, spinal mounts may, for some reason, get along with less.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

So, while building some electronic warfare platforms, I ran into some contradictory rules (which I will mostly ignore to do what makes sense) and wanted to at least post about it so that the Mongeese can see and maybe errata the blasted things. The rules I'm dealing with revolve around the sensor operators and number of sensor stations.

This all resolves itselves by realising it's all just minimums.

You can have as many sensor operators (or engineers) as you like, down to the minimum specified. Civilian ships don't need all that many sensor operators, so they can be reduced (if you want).

You just don't need extra sensor stations on large ships as the bridges are large enough anyway, with an arbitrary limit on "large ships".

 

[Condottiere]

The difference for mechanics and engineers might be, that their jobs become easier since they have a larger piece of the same equipment to supervise.

 

[Terry Mixon]

This all resolves itselves by realising it's all just minimums.

You can have as many sensor operators (or engineers) as you like, down to the minimum specified. Civilian ships don't need all that many sensor operators, so they can be reduced (if you want).

You just don't need extra sensor stations on large ships as the bridges are large enough anyway, with an arbitrary limit on "large ships".

So how do you get yourself extra sensor actions on a larger ship?

 

[Arkathan]

The mechanic is silly. For 66 tons, a 7500 ton ship gets 7 actions. A 7600 ton ship is assumed to get 2 actions and cannot dedicate more than 60 tons to EW actions.
While the bridge remains a constant 60 tons, the larger your ship, the more actions you get, by packing in sensor operators. Eventually, you just get a bridge with no room to move.
Unless the intent is to pack the bridge, there is an unexcusable gap in electronics warfare for lower end large capital ships. The method to increase actions on such large ships need to be spelled out.

 

[MasterGwydion]

The mechanic is silly. For 66 tons, a 7500 ton ship gets 7 actions. A 7600 ton ship is assumed to get 2 actions and cannot dedicate more than 60 tons to EW actions.
While the bridge remains a constant 60 tons, the larger your ship, the more actions you get, by packing in sensor operators. Eventually, you just get a bridge with no room to move.
Unless the intent is to pack the bridge, there is an unexcusable gap in electronics warfare for lower end large capital ships. The method to increase actions on such large ships need to be spelled out.

I use the control center rules for space stations for Bridge Size. They have no upper limit.

 

[Condottiere]

I would say that bridge tonnages are minimum size, so as to incur no performance penalties.

You can always degrade them to the next lower size, for that minus one.

 

[Arkathan]

I would say that bridge tonnages are minimum size, so as to incur no performance penalties.

You can always degrade them to the next lower size, for that minus one.

But increasing the size of the bridge confers no stated EW benefit, just a logical method of avoiding Sensop cordwood stacks. Whether it is adding stations or multiplying the 1/7500 by the number of bridges/aux bridges, or just packing in as many Sensops as you can find bunks for, there needs to be a statement of intent or rule that allows an increase in EW capabilities..

 

[Condottiere]

Another way of looking at it, performance defaults to minimum comfort level.

You can't squeeze more out, if there is no further potential.

Our magic sword plus one probably is automation, or computer enhancement.

 

[Arkathan]

Potential: See previous post on the potential of a 7500 ton ship versus the lack thereof in a 7600 ton ship.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

So how do you get yourself extra sensor actions on a larger ship?

Add more sensor operators?

Add 1000 sensor operators, you get an extra 1000 sensor actions.

 

[Arkathan]

Add more sensor operators?

Add 1000 sensor operators, you get an extra 1000 sensor actions.

If Mongoose would define that as such we could easily run with that, but good luck squeezing them into a 60 ton bridge. At least we would have a mechanic for increasing sensor actions.

 

[Vormaerin]

Well, additional sensor stations take up 1 ton so if you have 1000 sensor ops, you'd be adding 1000 tons to the bridge

 

[Arkathan]

Well, additional sensor stations take up 1 ton so if you have 1000 sensor ops, you'd be adding 1000 tons to the bridge

RAW: Not allowed on ships over 7500 tons.

 

[Vormaerin]

Oh, right. I forget that dumb rule. You should define how many sensor stations are on a bridge of a given size and let people put in extras if they want.

 

[Condottiere]

One way of looking at it, would be how much information can you obtain from one sensor array, and how many operators would you need to detect it.

 

[MasterGwydion]

One way of looking at it, would be how much information can you obtain from one sensor array, and how many operators would you need to detect it.

On all My Capital Ships I include multiple complete sets sensor arrays and their accessories. That is how I justify it IMTU. I don't have a mathematical method for determining how many I need, (which now that I think about it, I should have.) I just throw in however many "feels" right. I do the same with My structures and stations.

 

[Condottiere]

In theory, you could have several different sets of sensors, each specializing in whatever spectrum there is out there in space.

How far this would overlap, in terms of duplicating the same work, is speculative.

 

[Vormaerin]

Additional sensor stations are 99% about electronic warfare, not looking out the digital window.