Large Ships, Reduced Crew, and Additional Sensor Stations

[Sigtrygg]

So isn't that what the gunners are for? Interpreting the sensor data and deciding on firing solutions?

The EW operators need their own EW suite.

Pilots of F35s are pilots, navigators, gunners, sensor and EW operators, all in one workstation.

 

[Terry Mixon]

So isn't that what the gunners are for? Interpreting the sensor data and deciding on firing solutions?

The EW operators need their own EW suite.

Pilots of F35s are pilots, navigators, gunners, sensor and EW operators, all in one workstation.

I agree they need their own suite. Or just not be forced to be on the bridge or banned from having extra stations because they aren’t on a smaller ship.

 

[Vormaerin]

Generally, the sensor ops provide the sensor lock data and send it to the gunners. In MgT2e, sensor lock/breaking sensor locks is a EW action. In Mg2300, firing solution is calculated by the sensor op and sent to the pilot and gunner for execution.

Technically, with high tech controls any crew work station can be configured to do any job. The only reason sensor ops stations are called out specifically is because it's the only one that likely benefits from additional stations beyond the baseline.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Generally, the sensor ops provide the sensor lock data and send it to the gunners. In MgT2e, sensor lock/breaking sensor locks is a EW action. In Mg2300, firing solution is calculated by the sensor op and sent to the pilot and gunner for execution.

Technically, with high tech controls any crew work station can be configured to do any job. The only reason sensor ops stations are called out specifically is because it's the only one that likely benefits from additional stations beyond the baseline.

This.

 

[Gavain]

However, there is a level of diminishing returns: (Core Rules 22 p173)

Electronic Warfare may be performed upon a salvo multiple times over several rounds, with the effects being cumulative. However, a salvo may only be subjected to Electronic Warfare once per round, no matter how many sensor operators are available.

So there is no point in having 1000 sensor operators for electronic warfare because you can't operate on the same salvo multiple times in a round.

 

[Terry Mixon]

However, there is a level of diminishing returns: (Core Rules 22 p173)

So there is no point in having 1000 sensor operators for electronic warfare because you can't operate on the same salvo multiple times in a round.

Truth, but the solution most combatants will come up with is to break large salvoes into many smaller ones to keep ships from stopping them all. The only answer to that is more sensops.

 

[MasterGwydion]

However, there is a level of diminishing returns: (Core Rules 22 p173)

So there is no point in having 1000 sensor operators for electronic warfare because you can't operate on the same salvo multiple times in a round.

No, but you can defend against multiple salvos each round, including missile salvos not aimed at your ship, such as in a fleet battle between capital ships, as one example.

 

[Vormaerin]

There can be more than one salvo out there, both in the form of several waves aimed at your ship and salvos aimed at ships you are escorting. Also, Sensor Ops actions include getting sensor lock ons onto other ships, so that's potentially multiple per round if you are firing at different targets (not really sensible without firing arcs, but possible). And it is used for breaking sensor locks by enemy ships, again something that might need to happen multiple times if many ships are aiming at you.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Truth, but the solution most combatants will come up with is to break large salvoes into many smaller ones to keep ships from stopping them all. The only answer to that is more sensops.

Am I wrong thinking that the rules state that all missiles from one ship fired at the same time, with the same stats, and at the same target, all function as one salvo?

 

[Terry Mixon]

Am I wrong thinking that the rules state that all missiles from one ship fired at the same time, with the same stats, and at the same target, all function as one salvo?

I don’t know and I’m away from the rules. Seems like they could be segregated.

 

[Vormaerin]

No, the definition of a salvo is "all the missiles coming at the same target in the same timeframe". Only way to segregate is to arrange for different arrival turns. Neither the 1/turn for EW nor the "everything is one salvo" is necessarily realistic. It is a simplification for ease of use. Attacker can't spread the missiles out to game the sensor ops rules, sensor ops can't stack dozens of sensor ops to make their EW silly effective.

 

[MasterGwydion]

CRB pg 172 Found it!

"Missiles are launched in salvos. A salvo is all the missiles launched by a ship against a single target in the same combat round. This could be a single missile from a single turret, three from a triple turret with three missile racks or dozens from multiple turrets or bays (see High Guard for more information on weapon bays)."

 

[Condottiere]

How about vectors?

One lot rendezvous in front, the other chases each other up the kilt.

 

[Terry Mixon]

CRB pg 172 Found it!

"Missiles are launched in salvos. A salvo is all the missiles launched by a ship against a single target in the same combat round. This could be a single missile from a single turret, three from a triple turret with three missile racks or dozens from multiple turrets or bays (see High Guard for more information on weapon bays)."

So ones from different ships are different salvos. My 800 Hornets could have a small missile bay and blast enemies down because they can’t defend against 800 salvos. My logic stands.

 

[MasterGwydion]

So ones from different ships are different salvos?

Seems that way, yes.

Edit: Which means you want a minimum of 1 sensor operator per anticipated enemy ship that carries missiles at the absolute minimum

 

[Terry Mixon]

Seems that way, yes.

I edited my post with an example. 800 Hornets with 1 small missile bay. Bam. Overwhelmed defenders.

 

[collins355]

Its great that we've moved from just designing stuff to the actual combat rules - which as we're seeing are full of holes.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

So ones from different ships are different salvos. My 800 Hornets could have a small missile bay and blast enemies down because they can’t defend against 800 salvos. My logic stands.

Worse than that:

Core, p173:
VARIANT MISSILES
High Guard introduces different types of missiles that are more accurate, carry more fuel or are faster but these rules suit the missiles included in the Traveller Core Rulebook. If a ship launches different types of missile at the same target in the same round, then all the missiles of each type are counted as a different salvo.

Each Hornet can launch many salvoes...


Theoretically the Referee can force the Hornets to form "fighter" squadrons, cutting down the clutter.

 

[Arkathan]

So isn't that what the gunners are for? Interpreting the sensor data and deciding on firing solutions?

The EW operators need their own EW suite.

Pilots of F35s are pilots, navigators, gunners, sensor and EW operators, all in one workstation.

That works on small ships and its why Sensops are optional on Adventure class ships. They only get one action, though.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Small salvoes have problems.
One good EW action can wipe out the salvo.
Small salvoes will often miss with a few missiles, which can be a noticeable fraction of fired missiles.
PD batteries don't care about salvoes, they kill missiles from any number of missiles.
Finally, the best anti-missile defence, Fragmentation missiles, don't care about salvoes, they just kill the stated number of missiles.