Rules Clarification: Virtual Crew Limits; can it replace every position or not? (ex. Engineers)

[Yenaldlooshi]

HGu22 pg 75 states: "Virtual Crew can replace up to five pilots, gunners or sensor operators on board a ship, potentially allowing the ship to act autonomously if all crew can be replaced in this way."

So when it lists "pilots, gunners or sensor operators" but then follow up with "...allowing the ship to act autonomously if all crew can be replaced in this way" are pilots, gunner and sensor operators simply mentioned as examples? Can engineers be replaced with VC? If not, then how can a ship ever work like a "drone" as stated in this section?

 

[Arkathan]

It says ships that have no living crew can make checks using their VC score.
That indicates an intent to allow autonomous vessels.
The possible exception would be astrogator, depending on which version of canon you want to go with - or ignore.

 

[Danestar]

From reading the Hiver automation rules, my assumption is that you can replace any crew with virtual crew, just don't expect them to do anything that can't be done by the computer such as putting more paper in the printer.

 

[Vormaerin]

You can replace the Engineer, but you need a robot avatar for it to be able to do the repair and maintenance tasks associated with engineering. Same issue with steward and medic.

 

[Geir]

My understanding is to take it literally with Virtual Crew just replacing pilots, gunners, and sensor operators.

If you had repair drones, you could use Auto-repair to perform engineering functions requiring hands(manipulators?)-on work for both engineers and maintenance personnel. Astrogators, still haven't found the reference where I pulled that DM-4 from, but I swear I didn't just hallucinated it (or asked ChatGPT) and in any case the computer would need to run an astrogator expert skill package - or use a robot brain that had the skill.

But medics and stewards would need robots of some sort, though a kind Referee should let you use a repair drone to toss a wounded person into an autodoc (if there are any wounded people or passengers to care of on an automated ship) - and you wouldn't need a captain or officers to supervise or an admin to keep track of stuff.

 

[CordwainerFish]

Astrogators, still haven't found the reference where I pulled that DM-4 from, but I swear I didn't just hallucinated it

Aliens of Charted Space v.2, p.236.

 

[Vormaerin]

There is the AutoCrew option from Whispers in the Abyss.

I think the question needs to be clarified a bit. Are you specifically asking about Virtual Crew? Because what lets the computer replace the Engineer is not Virtual Crew. The programs that replace the Engineer are Maneuver, Jump Control, and AutoRepair (which needs drones). At least for routine operations.

Regardless, it is clearly the intent of the rules in High Guard and Robots to be able to make autonomous robot ships if desired (Astrogation questions excepted ). You could say that your robot ship can't fulfill the combat role of Engineer, so can't overlock the engines and can only do the repair action if drones are available. But the routine operations are automatable for sure.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

HGu22 pg 75 states: "Virtual Crew can replace up to five pilots, gunners or sensor operators on board a ship, potentially allowing the ship to act autonomously if all crew can be replaced in this way."

So when it lists "pilots, gunners or sensor operators" but then follow up with "...allowing the ship to act autonomously if all crew can be replaced in this way" are pilots, gunner and sensor operators simply mentioned as examples? Can engineers be replaced with VC? If not, then how can a ship ever work like a "drone" as stated in this section?

It refers to small craft. They only need Pilots, Gunners, and Sensor Ops.

I allow Engineering expert software to control Repair Drones, based on statements somewhere, possibly MgT1.

MgT2 Core22, p159:
REPAIR DRONES
Carrying repair drones allows a ship to make repairs during combat, allowing access to exterior components without risking crew. They also have sufficient intelligence to allow repairs to be initiated by a drone controller rather than a dedicated engineer.
Repair drones allows a Traveller [comment: hence Intellect+Expert] with the Electronics (remote ops) skill to use the Repair System action (see page 172).

The repair drones are considered to have an Engineer skill level of 1 or the level the Traveller has in Electronics (remote ops), whichever is lower, in all specialities for the Repair System action alone.

Note that it takes a lot of BW to automate a large crew, and we can only have one ship's computer IIRC.

Also see "Starship Automation" in the Traveller's Companion, p179.

Otherwise season with robots as needed...

 

[AndrewW]

Note that it takes a lot of BW to automate a large crew, and we can only have one ship's computer IIRC.

One primary and one backup computer, the backup computer must be a lower capacity then the primary computer,

 

[Galadrion]

One primary and one backup computer, the backup computer must be a lower capacity then the primary computer,

True as far as it goes, but the rules specify that only the effectively highest-rated system can be active at a single time.

(This is one of the rules I vehemently disagree with, and house-rule away at earliest opportunity. Along with the lack of space computers occupy - they don't occupy much, but they do take up some - and can be networked, and firewalled, and any of the other tricks you can carry out with other computers. SOP on many of my passenger-carrying ships is to have a separate passengers' server, which is heavily firewalled out of the ship's operating computer - makes computers available for the passengers, while still putting roadblocks in the way of would-be black-hat hijackers.)

 

[Geir]

Aliens of Charted Space v.2, p.236.

Thank you!
That was definitely it.
I was beginning to think I was (am?) just the hallucination of a chat bot. Now the question becomes: Did Martin just make that up or did he have a source? I have a vague feeling that it comes from something Marc said in some YouTube interview, but I couldn't locate that either.

 

[Vormaerin]

Still seems to be a MgT2e original rule, which is mostly what I was trying to determine when I started that thread. Because I couldn't find it in any of my other Traveller rules. But there's more magazine articles and the like than I've ever managed to read.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

SOP on many of my passenger-carrying ships is to have a separate passengers' server, which is heavily firewalled out of the ship's operating computer - makes computers available for the passengers, while still putting roadblocks in the way of would-be black-hat hijackers.)

A ship's computer is a mainframe.

A minicomputer handling a few passenger workstations is too small and cheap to register in ship design, basically you can have as many as you want...

 

[AnotherDilbert]

One primary and one backup computer, the backup computer must be a lower capacity then the primary computer,

Thanks, yes. As we only use one of them at a time, BW gets exponentially more expensive, limiting maximum amount of Virtual Crew.

 

[MasterGwydion]

I have scrapped the only one active computer per ship rule as it is dumb. I understand it is there for "game balance", but it is the same as saying a shipping company can only have one ship. Although, a ship can have multiple Brains, which confuses the rule even further.

 

[Condottiere]

 

[AnotherDilbert]

I have scrapped the only one active computer per ship rule as it is dumb.

Then you don't have any problem. Load up the ship with computers, Virtual Crew, and Expert software as needed. Some drones to turn any wrenches.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Then you don't have any problem. Load up the ship with computers, Virtual Crew, and Expert software as needed. Some drones to turn any wrenches.

Pretty much, yeah.