ISA White star, WS II, WS gun ship

[Kosh127]

ISA White star, WS II, WS gun ship

Ok how do you guys thing the WS stack up? Do you think in this carnation (what number 8) that they got it right? Or is it to light or heavy. What do you guys think of the Gunship? I think that the weopones loadout on the ships are good. I think the triats are just right. I however believe that the hull/ crew is slightly low by 2 on the the WS, WSII. I believe that the gunship is low in hull by 4-6 and crew by 6-8 I just think that for a battle ships is not a good choice. The speed makes it easier to keep up with and it has a lower hall than 2 battle ships. In fact the only gain is the WS fighters. I don’t see them as an good trade. What do you guys think.

 

[Burger]

I think they're pretty good

Hit them had and they'll die. If you want to survive, don't go head-to-head. Use your manouverability.

 

[H]

They are as good as they need to be, maybe more so, outstanding maneuvreability, Forward arc (for some reason ignoring the shows evidence for boresight), great speed, ability to avoid shots, WSI can self scout, essentially gaining twin linked on secondaries, It's been a long time since I have seen the whitestars outclassed by anyone.

 

[Zeru]

I find the White Star Gunship a bit lacking tbh, overall two White Star 2's are a better option for that battle point, as it takes more overall fire power to down 2 White Stars then it does 1 White Star Gunship, not to mention the extra activation for movement and the ability to split up firepower better.

 

[Triggy]

I find the White Star Gunship a bit lacking tbh, overall two White Star 2's are a better option for that battle point, as it takes more overall fire power to down 2 White Stars then it does 1 White Star Gunship, not to mention the extra activation for movement and the ability to split up firepower better.

I'm not saying you're wrong about this specific example of which is better but just to point out, in general, it's almost always the case that two Raid PL ships can take more damage than one Battle PL ship. The tradeoff is that once one Raid PL ship is destroyed, you lose all of its firepower. Compare this to the larger ship where it can take a pounding and in general will still be able to shoot.

 

[Arch Lector Petrovski]

Good point, though between them they may have more overall damage or even AD it gets halved if one of them dies; whereas the battle level ship can keep going for a good bit longer than one of the raids and still at full power. Oh, and you can still split the fire power the targets just have to be closer together.

 

[inq101]

plus the gunship is repairing itself quicker.

All the Whitestars are overguned and under-hitted (?). In other words, exactly right.

 

[Arch Lector Petrovski]

It's a good overall balance, and they seem to work well. I wouldn't complain about having a Whitestar fleet, I can tell you that for certain.

 

[Methos5000]

The effectiveness of the ISA fleet can depend in large part on who they are facing. All the manueverablility in the world doesnt help them against the Gaim. The long range multiple banks of turreted e-mines can decimate a Whitestar force since one of its biggest defenses is nullified. That and the fact the ISA have no antifighter in the Whitestar class ships until War level is a big vulnerablity against the Gaim as well.

At least with the Narn, pak'ma'ra and Brakiri the ISA can out flank their e-mines.

 

[GhostRecon]

E-mines are a definite threat, but you forget that the White Stars get the accurate trait on their Molecular Pulsars, making them capable of shooting down enemy fighters.

 

[David Anla Shok']

E mines. Yep. Still a bit broken. Being able to target, "nothing", gives them a big advantage. I use the WS gunship off and on but it tends to be mostly a mortar magnet. Two WSIIs are far more dangerous and useful.
Regards,

 

[Methos5000]

Yes Whitestars can shoot down fighters, from the front arc only. The Carrier is the only one with all around fire, but its a War Level ship and it effectiveness is reduced against the gaim as the gaim have advanced anti-fighter so all those nice whitestar fighters can get demolished by the ships...assuming they even get past the e-mines.

Not even considering fighters, turreted e-mine launchers are the biggest threat to Whitestars, Bluestars, several Drazi ships. All of which either have reduced hulls or damage and crew ratings to reflect their dodge rating. When that defense is ignored completly by the STANDARD weapon of one entire race, something is wrong.

The only defense they can effectively use is Close Blast Doors. But I don't feel a fleet MUST use a specific special action the entire battle or risk utter destruction.

 

[inq101]

You might want to re-check Gaim stats, specifically AD and special rules on their photon bombs. Most are 2AD without ANY specials except e-mine, some are even slow loading. Only the raid level queen cruiser has a more powerful system (4AD I think, not got my books with me). Great for anti-fighter work, buy useless against larger ships. White stars will NEVER take more than a single point of damage from a photon bomb.

The Gaim's main weapons are their fighters (who you can dodge).

 

[Lord David the Denied]

I'd never use the White Star Gunship or Carrier. I think they're ugly and more than a little dubious as concepts. The White Star Fighter is ok, but the carrier for it shouldn't be a deformed White Star, it should be a totally new ship similar to the Victory Destroyer...

 

[Ripple]

Given the way adaptive armor works having lots of small ad weapon systems is the best way to get damage onto a whitestar. One point or two is the same but a third is just lost.

I tend to agree that the spreading of mine ships is adding to the rock paper scissors effects in the game. The dodge dependent races (which is correctly pointed out above now includes the drazi) are seriously hosed by these weapons, as are the stealth dependent. Sure it may not seem like a lot of damage, but a small amount on several ships over a couple of turns means it only takes a few fighters to finish the job.

Ripple

 

[H]

Given the way adaptive armor works having lots of small ad weapon systems is the best way to get damage onto a whitestar. One point or two is the same but a third is just lost.

I tend to agree that the spreading of mine ships is adding to the rock paper scissors effects in the game. The dodge dependent races (which is correctly pointed out above now includes the drazi) are seriously hosed by these weapons, as are the stealth dependent. Sure it may not seem like a lot of damage, but a small amount on several ships over a couple of turns means it only takes a few fighters to finish the job.

Ripple

so the essential view from the ISA players is going to be a bit of a whine that Mines can hit them? but no complaints about the huge drop in antifighter weapons? heres a thought, if you don't like mines, take Abbai allies to plough through with their shields, or take narn, to lob your own mines back, your'e not exactly struggling with one of the best raid ships in the game, the Best armegeddon ship, and access to Allies and heck you even get a Sharlin now! instead of complaining about it, think of ways to overcome it.

 

[katadder]

one other thing with e-mines - until your ship is dead its fighting at full effect as they wont crit you. so playing Gaim for example you may lose ships fairly quick but the ones that are not dead will be dishing the pain right back at them at full power.

 

[Da Boss]

Given the way adaptive armor works having lots of small ad weapon systems is the best way to get damage onto a whitestar. One point or two is the same but a third is just lost.

I tend to agree that the spreading of mine ships is adding to the rock paper scissors effects in the game. The dodge dependent races (which is correctly pointed out above now includes the drazi) are seriously hosed by these weapons, as are the stealth dependent. Sure it may not seem like a lot of damage, but a small amount on several ships over a couple of turns means it only takes a few fighters to finish the job.

Ripple

so the essential view from the ISA players is going to be a bit of a whine that Mines can hit them? but no complaints about the huge drop in antifighter weapons? heres a thought, if you don't like mines, take Abbai allies to plough through with their shields, or take narn, to lob your own mines back, your'e not exactly struggling with one of the best raid ships in the game, the Best armegeddon ship, and access to Allies and heck you even get a Sharlin now! instead of complaining about it, think of ways to overcome it.

I think it was more that he was concerned that to beat fleet xyz you need to haave the right tools / ships and not just a generic fleet. At least that was how I read the reply? Not sure myself on this point as happy to take the same Centauri fleet against varied opponents - probabyl cos the Centauri are so good

 

[H]

to beat anyone, you have to have the right tools? otherwise every fleet would have one "all rounder " ship,

 

[Triggy]

to beat anyone, you have to have the right tools? otherwise every fleet would have one "all rounder " ship,

Indeed, hence the recommendation from most players (including tournament players) to take a balanced (mixed) fleet so that any particular trick or tactic won't automatically beat you and that you don't rely on a single trick/tactic either. If somebody maxes out on a tactic that aims at your weakness then there's only so much you can do but hopefully a player won't go "all e-mines" hoping to only play ISA and Minbari as anyone else will kill them.