ISA - ship idea

[Calistan]

With the gunship(I hope someone is planning to re-sculpt it) possibly dropping a level, I've had this idea of an ISA ship that takes the best parts of the Victory and White Star, and then combine those parts into a new War level ship. The ship would be similar in size to the White Star Carrier, it would look similar to a Victory, but it would have elements of the White Star in its structure.

General Stats

Speed: 12
Turns: 2/45
Damage: 35/5
Crew: 60/5
Troops: 3
Craft: 4 Thunderbolts
Special Rules: Adaptive Armor, AJP, Flight Computer, Dodge 5+, Self-Repairing 1d6, Interceptors 2
In Service: 2270

Weapons:
Improved Neutron Laser rng 24 F 3AD Beam, precise, SAP, TD
Lightning Cannon rng 10 F 4AD Beam, precise, SAP, Slow Loading TD
Molecular Pulsar rng 15 F 9AD AP, DD, Precise, Anti-Fighter
Molecular Pulsar rng 15 A 6AD AP, DD, Precise, Anti-Fighter
Fusion Cannon rng 18 F 3AD AP, Mini Beam
Fusion Cannon rng 18 A 3AD AP, Mini Beam
Fusion Cannon rng 18 P 3AD AP, Mini Beam
Fusion Cannon rng 18 S 3AD AP, Mini Beam

Unlike the Victory, the engineers planned for the energy drain by storing up the excess energy that the ship was producing before firing, though this limited its speed, range, and power.

I don't have a name for it, but what do people think about the concept.

 

[Burger]

Seems horribly overpowered to me, Hull is not mentioned but even at hull 5 it'd be horribly overpowered.

Make the lightning cannon follow the same rules as the Victory (and change it to 8AD, Boresight, range 8"), lose the Aft molecular pulsar and drop the F to 6AD, change the fusion cannons to just 4AD turreted, and drop crew to 40/8.

 

[Da Boss]

Does seem a bit good - I would prob loose the inteceptors as well - it has dodge and adaptive armour.......You prob need to give AJP or at least JP. Could try a White star gunship with just a Lightning Cannon? :shock: give it Slow loading though and bore sight maybe.............

 

[Calistan]

How about removing the Neutron Lasers and just have a slow loading lightning gun.

Is this a little better?

Speed: 12
Turns: 2/45
Hull: 6
Damage: 35/5
Crew: 40/8
Troops: 3
Craft: 4 Thunderbolts
Special Rules: Adaptive Armor, AJP, Flight Computer, Dodge 5+, Self-Repairing 2
In Service: 2270

Weapons:
Lightning Cannon rng 10 F 8AD Beam, precise, SAP, Slow Loading TD
Molecular Pulsar rng 15 F 9AD AP, DD, Precise, Anti-Fighter
Fusion Cannon rng 18 F 3AD AP, Mini Beam
Fusion Cannon rng 18 A 3AD AP, Mini Beam
Fusion Cannon rng 18 P 3AD AP, Mini Beam
Fusion Cannon rng 18 S 3AD AP, Mini Beam

 

[Davesaint]

How about removing the Neutron Lasers and just have a slow loading lightning gun.

Is this a little better?

Speed: 12
Turns: 2/45
Hull: 6
Damage: 35/5
Crew: 40/8
Troops: 3
Craft: 4 Thunderbolts
Special Rules: Adaptive Armor, AJP, Flight Computer, Dodge 5+, Self-Repairing 2
In Service: 2270

Weapons:
Lightning Cannon rng 10 F 8AD Beam, precise, SAP, Slow Loading TD
Molecular Pulsar rng 15 F 9AD AP, DD, Precise, Anti-Fighter
Fusion Cannon rng 18 F 3AD AP, Mini Beam
Fusion Cannon rng 18 A 3AD AP, Mini Beam
Fusion Cannon rng 18 P 3AD AP, Mini Beam
Fusion Cannon rng 18 S 3AD AP, Mini Beam

Slow it down to speed 10. Make the Lightning Cannon Boresight. Maybe change the hull to hull 5. Use the lightning Cannon rules for the Victory - meaning that the turn after you fire it you are drifiting at speed 4, and that you cant fire your other weapons when you fire the lightning cannon. Thus no dodge on turn after the lightning cannon fires.


Dave

 

[Sulfurdown]

Use the lightning Cannon rules for the Victory

I think the point was to adjust the ship so it didn't suffer the power losses of the Victory.

 

[lastbesthope]

Tricky to do that fluff wise, even the designr said the Lightning Cannon technology was designed for use in a much larger ship than the VCD, or one with even more power reserve.

LBH

 

[Calistan]

Wasn't the designer a traitor?

 

[lastbesthope]

Yes, but that doesn't mean everything he said was a lie.

LBH

 

[Calistan]

He could have been exaggerating. Who is to say he wasn't stretching the truth.

 

[Triggy]

Assuming Hull 5, stats are not too bad (well only moderately overpowered which is better than most fan designs).

One option would be simply drop the Neutron Lasers and you'd be about right (although a little short ranged). Another would be to drop the Molecular Pulsars to 4AD Front, 3AD Aft...

 

[Jal]

the big gun on the Victory is a retroengineered Vorlon Lightning Cannon... one does not just plug & play with such things. :wink:

 

[Calistan]

Dropping its hull to 5, though I was hoping to have it at 6, how about this change in the ship? The lightning gun is to much of a pain to include, but if second ed improves it, then I would change my mind.

ISA Ranger(Why not have a Ranger class Capital Ship)

Speed: 10
Turns: 2/45
Hull: 5
Damage: 37/5
Crew: 40/8
Troops: 3
Craft: 3 Thunderbolts
Special Rules: Adaptive Armor, AJP, Flight Computer, Dodge 5+, Self-Repairing 1d6
In Service: 2270

Weapons:
Improved Neutron Laser rng 24 F 3AD Beam, precise, SAP, TD
Molecular Pulsar rng 15 T 10AD AP, DD, Precise, Anti-Fighter
Fusion Cannon rng 18 F 3AD AP, Mini Beam
Fusion Cannon rng 18 A 3AD AP, Mini Beam
Fusion Cannon rng 18 P 3AD AP, Mini Beam
Fusion Cannon rng 18 S 3AD AP, Mini Beam

 

[CZuschlag]

Boy, has this ship undergone a lot of revisions to try to get to reasonable. We may have gone a touch overboard with this last change, though.

Its closest comparison right now is the Minbari Shantavi. Of course, the Shantavi is Battle, and this ship would be War.

If you consider Dodge 5 and Self-Repair a bit of a push with Stealth 4, you'll find these start to resemble each other very closely. The ship is (about) 74/10 : 80/16 versus the 38/6:42/7, which, if you doubled it, would get you to the war-capacity.

However, the two Shantavi provide greater firepower and an extra initiative sink in exchange for side guns and 4" of move:

Weapon.................Shantavi.....Ranger
SAP, TD, P, Beam....4(x2)+1"..........3
AP, DD, P.................8 (x2).....10 + 10" + Antifighter + Turret
F-Arc AP, MB............4(x2)..........3

In exchange for this an an initiative sink, you get 3 AD of Fusion all 'round, and 4" of move, and (this is pretty important) 1/45 turn. Is that enough? Not really, being outbeamed initially 3 to 8 is a little hard to ignore.

Oh, true, you do get 3 T-bolts, whereas the Shantavi gives nothing. Minimal, but it's worth noting the differences.

And the Shantavi is one of the better battle-level hulls out there; make no mistake.

So .... the hull itself is fine; what we probably jsut need a slight upgrade. I'd recommend selecting one from:

--- Add Interceptors 1. A big-deal upgrade. Most extreme option because of the way defenses multiply.

-- Add 1 AD of INL. This makes its total beam output very comparable to the Sharlin's 12 ADxDamage Rating forward beam. (6x2 vs. 4x3).

-- Install Command (like Command 2).

-- Add some crew. It's the crew that will kill this ship, not the damage, so add some crew (only). Perhaps 10-15%.

-- Install a small Standard Missile Rack. (smallest option).

-- Install a Heavy Pulse Cannon fo perhaps 8 AD (Twin-Link).

-- Upgrade the Fusion Cannons to a few more AD, and Twin-Link them.

All the above suggestions are standard ISA technologies.

 

[Ripple]

Only issue I have with the above analysis is the concept that two battle doesn't usually out shoot a war.

The shantavi may be a good comparison but I would want to see a few other ships as well. Say a vorlon, bintak and a tashkat to get some extremes. Just to do the cross board comparison rather than an almost in-house check.

Just me...the current ships seems fairly close, I agree another die around and/or some more crew would not be out of line. Bumping the beam make s me a tad jumpy, but that's just because its a big step.

Don't like the interceptor.
Command feels a bit off for this ship.
The missile would be fine, small though, couple of AD.
Pulse cannon feels off for a whitestar.
Twin linking the minibeams would also work fine...even with a 1 AD upgrade. Hesitate to go more than that.

Not that my opinion should nudge anyone on this, I haven't pulled out all my books and really examined the balance issues enough...going on gut feeling here, and my gut has been getting spanked by the minbari/ISA lately.

Ripple

 

[Triggy]

Well, with this latest revision, you could bump it to Hull 6 and you'd actually be OK!

It's firepower is still very good but the toughness doesn't match and it does need something defensive.

 

[Calistan]

How about this change to the vessel.

ISA Ranger

Speed: 10
Turns: 2/45
Hull: 6
Damage: 33/5
Crew: 42/8
Troops: 3
Craft: 3 Thunderbolts
Special Rules: Adaptive Armor, AJP, Flight Computer, Dodge 5+, Self-Repairing 1d6
In Service: 2270

Weapons:
Improved Neutron Laser rng 24 F 4AD Beam, Precise, SAP, TD
Molecular Pulsar rng 15 T 10AD AP, DD, Precise, Anti-Fighter
Fusion Cannon rng 18 F 4AD AP, Mini Beam, TL
Fusion Cannon rng 18 A 4AD AP, Mini Beam, TL
Fusion Cannon rng 18 P 4AD AP, Mini Beam, TL
Fusion Cannon rng 18 S 4AD AP, Mini Beam, TL

 

[Triggy]

Well, with this latest revision, you could bump it to Hull 6 and you'd actually be OK!

It's firepower is still very good but the toughness doesn't match and it does need something defensive.

Oops, just realised it has Adaptive Armour too

erm, in that case you're probably fine with the stats they way they were - sorry.

 

[Drahazar]

the last thing th ISA needs is another evil ship there a police force more than a army they police space and the other factions with powerful ships. White star carriers are evil little things. a carrier with dodge is dumb.

 

[katadder]

the ISA should have the enfili and valen though i think at raid and battle level respectively to give other choices than WSs. which means you could doa force without any whitestars or variants then.
nolo'tar at skirmish, enfili at raid, valen at battle, sharlin variant at war, victory at armageddon.
although as it looks like no enfili or valen for now guess we better wait for some S&P ships.