Insurance for ship and cargo and rules for salvage

[Anstett]

Smells repairable to me. There has to be rules for used ships. *goes to look*

And @mavikfelna

There are some rules scattered about and other non-mongoose publications that cover it. Here is how I combined things for our game.

Dragonslayer Space | Main / SaleAndSalvage

 

[phavoc]

This is my second post about happenings in last night's game.

My fellow players and I were under the impression that insurance is part of a ship's mortgage and for freight, part of the fee for carrying it also included insurance. Additionally, the loan we took out for our spec cargo would also logically include an insurance rider. But of course I can't find any support for that sort of view in the game rules. So what is everyone's opinion on insurance? We're currently debating this with our GM, since he doesn't agree with that.

Also, we captured a pirate free trader, after doing some significant damage to it, but there are no rules that I can find on valuing the salvage. Are there rules for this?

Typically insurance is an after-market cost for cargo, but would normally be included in the mortgage costs if you don't own the ship. That would be the same as a person with a car has to carry collision insurance (in the US) so long as a bank owns the title.

Freight is insured separately, and it would be (possibly) in two parts. If you are shipping freight owned by someone else they could buy a policy on the value of the freight for themselves - if you were to lose it they would get paid but you would not get paid your profit (potentially) for transport. If you were to buy the freight on spec then unless you purchased insurance post-sale, then you'd have no insurance on the freight's value if something were to happen to it. Your ship policy would cover damages to the ship, but not the value of the freight itself.

Of course, it's entirely possible that some people would take on extra mortgage costs to cover freight, but that gets a bit complicated and costly. The reason for that is insurance is based on value of what is being insured. A load of steel is less valuable than a load of electronics. So your insurance company would want a higher premium for a higher value cargo. A mortgage payment is flat and set, thus unless your cargo insured value was fixed, it could not pay for more expensive cargos in a way that an insurance company would feel comfortable with - they don't like risk unless they are being compensated for it.

However, if you want to make it very easy, then sure, just assume all ships carry cargo insurance and the premium is part of the mortgage.

 

[boggo2300]

Typically insurance is an after-market cost for cargo, but would normally be included in the mortgage costs if you don't own the ship. That would be the same as a person with a car has to carry collision insurance (in the US) so long as a bank owns the title.

Freight is insured separately, and it would be (possibly) in two parts. If you are shipping freight owned by someone else they could buy a policy on the value of the freight for themselves - if you were to lose it they would get paid but you would not get paid your profit (potentially) for transport. If you were to buy the freight on spec then unless you purchased insurance post-sale, then you'd have no insurance on the freight's value if something were to happen to it. Your ship policy would cover damages to the ship, but not the value of the freight itself.

Of course, it's entirely possible that some people would take on extra mortgage costs to cover freight, but that gets a bit complicated and costly. The reason for that is insurance is based on value of what is being insured. A load of steel is less valuable than a load of electronics. So your insurance company would want a higher premium for a higher value cargo. A mortgage payment is flat and set, thus unless your cargo insured value was fixed, it could not pay for more expensive cargos in a way that an insurance company would feel comfortable with - they don't like risk unless they are being compensated for it.

However, if you want to make it very easy, then sure, just assume all ships carry cargo insurance and the premium is part of the mortgage.

I don't agree with that, If you have a lease on a Cargo Van or a light truck for example, they will almost always require you to have insurance... BUT ONLY ON THEIR ASSET (IE only the van or truck, not it's cargo) Cargo Insurance is almost always a separate buisiness expense (for cargo ships as well), Tramp freighters when they were more common were usually so much cheaper because the cargo insurance was a cost they avoided...

TLDR The bank doesn't give a hoot about your cargo, they are only interested in insurance on THEIR asset... namely ths ship.

 

[Terry Mixon]

I didn’t find much on the costing of used ships, but you could always turn this around on your GM. Find out who the pirate’s is and sue him for damages and emotional distress.

 

[Condottiere]

 

[MonsterX]

I'd definitely NOT fold insurance into PC's mortgages, just because they are adventurers in a space opera setting. This could lead to problems for them. But, problems are also adventure hooks.

In general, I'd assume that PCs are the sort of cowboys and cowgirls that try to skirt by without things like insurance, which is likely to get them in trouble sometimes, but that's ok.

Sure, you can buy insurance, it is very sensible to do so. After all, it's a dangerous galaxy out there. Some places might require insurance - or a bond - to dock at a starport, for example. To pay for damages from bad piloting. Or bar tabs that players are skipping out on. Or players might land on the idea that they need insurance to carry a high value cargo through a risky area. But insurance costs more relative to the risk, and player's lives tend to be inherently risky, so such solutions are going to cut deep into their profit margins.

I'm refereeing DNR at the moment, however, and the Deepnight Corporation is self-insuring. Also, I doubt Lloyd's of Tobia has an office in the Far Side of Nowhere. We'll see when we get there.

 

[swordtart]

I'd say insurance is part of the mortgage. It is not for your protection it is for the protection of the lender. If you lose the ship you are unlikely to be able to pay any outstanding sum with your worthless hide. If it were not so then no-one would lend for ship purchases.

As a side plot, the insurance company will likely be after the borrowers blood.

For cargo insurance it is for the shipper to arrange. I normally levy 10% of the base value of the cargo. If you are carrying someone else's cargo you don't need to worry. Of course if you are confident or greedy you can ship your own cargo without adequate insurance.

I also require an Admin check when claiming as those insurers are tricky. Regardless of whether it is someone else's or your own cargo a failure means a court case as the insurance refuses to pay out as it didn't cover the circumstances of the loss.

On the upside insurers reward salvage at 10% of value as a finders fee when they take possession free and clear, no questions asked. Otherwise you need an admin check to make a claim to the salvage (there will be a fee of at least 1% of the value of the salvage). It is standard procedure to ensure the salvage is not a result of piracy. In questionable circumstances (or by default where there are no witnesses) a civil court case likely occur. If you try to sell the ship without trying to register the claim, claim piracy is assumed and you may not live to see the court.

These are story telling opportunities and adventure hooks in the referee's gift, not instant cash cows for characters.

 

[Vormaerin]

Fyi, Classic Traveller Book 9: Pirates says that prize ships are generally worth 2d6% of the original price, assuming you can actually get it to port. That's for legal sale of captured ships, such as privateers and corporate trade war "pirates" who have government or corporate patrons with the wherewithal to legalize a captured ship.

 

[Terry Mixon]