I'm wondering if I'm ever going to particularly like RQ...

[Prak the Mad]

So, how many years of real time does one have to play RQ before they become competent in a number of things and get to be a "Big Damn Hero"? Right now it feels like we're "meaningless little peons that are vaguely more impressive compared to other meaningless peons".

We've played a handful of games, are just starting this system, and I've had two characters die, I'm just starting my third*. Meanwhile, two of the original trio are still on their first characters, my friend who joined a game after we started is on his second character, and the DM's SO has joined, and played for three games, and is now the resident plot hook generator.

So, the newest member is a trader and the two original characters and she have formed a company. My friend and I have been brought on as "prospective members" but are merely tagging along until we've "proved our worth".
This situation presents two problems for me... One, I understand the versimilitude and realism of doing things this way, holding the new characters at arm's length, rather than welcoming them immediately because anything else would be the dreaded syndrome of metagaming, but... come on, can't there be some contrivance? Two, we're bascially caravan guards... I don't want to play a caravan guard, I want to play an adventurer. I want to be thrust into dangerous situations that I can, provided tactics and character abilities, handle.

so, does the game ever feel like heroic fantasy? or is it always "moderately realistic fantasy"?



*I'm also starting to feel the old stigmata of "that guy who always dies" from my days of Wod, but...

 

[Utgardloki]

Part of the problem might be the way that the DM is running the adventures. The Exalted game system is supposed to be one where the PCs start out as over-the-top even-more-superheroic than D&D PCs, and then get spectaculary better from there. But whenever I played Exalted, the PCs were always being pushed around by peasants as if we were just 1st level D&D PCs and were playing 3rd Edition where the DM was using 4th and 5th level Commoners.

Runequest does have the feature that a PC will never get to be as superheroic as a mid-level D&D PC. Even when a PC is at the top of the curve, with multiple scores above 100% and starting to pick out legendary abilities, she and her party won't be able to cleave through hordes of minions they way D&D characters can.

But on the other hand, that also applies to NPCs. If PCs just can not gain the respect of NPCs no matter how well established they are, then it might be the way the DM is running the game. You might try running a game and see how things play out. Or ask your DM to run a game like Exalted or 4th Edition D&D and see what happens.

On the other hand, compared to Call of Cthulhu PCs, Runequest PCs are veritable superheroes.

As for bringing in a new PC on an equal footing with the existing PCs, one way I've handled it is to have the new PC given a good recommendation from an off-stage NPC. So even though the new PC hasn't proved his worth to the party, on the say-so of a trusted NPC, he can be trusted with significant responsibilities. Ideas like this might help.

 

[Cleombrotus]

come on, can't there be some contrivance? Two, we're bascially caravan guards... I don't want to play a caravan guard, I want to play an adventurer.

That's not Runequest, that's your GM. As far as your group's concerned you may just be a square peg in a round hole, but you might want to mention that you want a different kind of adventure. If your GM is the type that runs things his way and expects you to deal with it, well, we've all probably met that kind and I can't say I've ever stuck around long.

RQ characters do reach a kind of survivability threshold after a while. The good news is that thanks to Darwin it's usually the better characters that make it, so the one that gets there will be hero material.

 

[soltakss]

So, how many years of real time does one have to play RQ before they become competent in a number of things and get to be a "Big Damn Hero"?

Define a "Big Damn Hero".

The reason for that is people's opinions of what makes a Hero vary enormously.

The RQ3 campaign I am GMing at the moment has taken 2 years of game time for the PCs to reach 90%/Rune level. Are they Heroes? Not yet. Do they make a difference? You bet.

The RQ2/3 campaign I ran for several years took about 10 game years for the PCs to reach heroic levels, but that was played on and off with some lengthy breaks in between.

Right now it feels like we're "meaningless little peons that are vaguely more impressive compared to other meaningless peons".

I assume you are starting as role-ups with no previous experience? RQM has several levels of experience for PCs, so you could start at a slightly higher level with more chance of doing things. The traditional way of doing it is to start as young PCs and then get more and more experienced, but that is by no means the only way of doing things.

What is a "meaningless little peon"? If you deel that way then that's all you will be. So, you haven't the skills to do things automatically, but that doesn't stop you from acting Heroic. You can do impressive things and make names for yourselves. You can carve your way through the world and become great that way.

We've played a handful of games, are just starting this system, and I've had two characters die, I'm just starting my third*. Meanwhile, two of the original trio are still on their first characters, my friend who joined a game after we started is on his second character, and the DM's SO has joined, and played for three games, and is now the resident plot hook generator.

How/Why did the die? Did you run into combat without preparation? When you have encounters, do you generally try for combat or do you think about whether you need to fight? Not every encounter needs combat and not every combat needs toe-to-toe fighting.

With some prior preparation, it is possible to cut down the odds of being killed. You can buy healing spells, healing potions, better armour. Picking things up off dead people is a good tactic and can get a lot of excellent equipment. Using missile weapons rather than melee weapons is also a good ploy.

Whilst it is often random as to who dies, the fact that you are on your third character but two of your players are still on their first may be because you are rushing into things.

So, the newest member is a trader and the two original characters and she have formed a company. My friend and I have been brought on as "prospective members" but are merely tagging along until we've "proved our worth".

Which is fairly typical when replacing a dead PC with a new one, unless there is some kind of relationship between the new PC and the old one.

This situation presents two problems for me...

Which is understandable.

One, I understand the versimilitude and realism of doing things this way, holding the new characters at arm's length, rather than welcoming them immediately because anything else would be the dreaded syndrome of metagaming, but... come on, can't there be some contrivance?

If there is no back-story that connects you to them (being a relative of the deceased, a friend of the survivibg PCs or some other situation) then you can always prove yourself to them. Do something heroic or save someone. Do that once and they will accept you.

Two, we're bascially caravan guards... I don't want to play a caravan guard, I want to play an adventurer. I want to be thrust into dangerous situations that I can, provided tactics and character abilities, handle.

I can fully understand your frustration. Talk to the GM, ask if there is anything he can do. Direct the scenarios to do things that you want to do. Sure, you are caravan guards, but you can still be heroic. Save another caravan from bandits or fight off bandits attacking your caravan, save a damsel in distress, while your cravan is in town, go and do something else. I am sure your GM can work scenarios in to your caravan-guarding schedule.

If you are in a party that is a trading party then you will tend to do merchanty things. If you want to be an adventurer then you might have to change the way the party works. Don't impose your ideas on people, be a bit more subtle and you could find that things improve.

so, does the game ever feel like heroic fantasy? or is it always "moderately realistic fantasy"?

Yes, the fame can feel like Heroic fantasy. You can do al sorts of good things.

 

[Blackyinkin]

Hi,

Nah, its definetly your GM, take my own Griffin Mountain Campaign Curve....

Week 1 - Players hired by Joh Mith to be Caravan Guards, meet some Bison Riders in Prax, fight, meet some oasis dwellers and trade. Boring bit done, they have proved their worth.

Week 2 - Players travel into the Nine Good Giant Mountains, fight a mountain giant. Go to Gonn Orta's castle (one of the biggest giants in the world), wrestle a Morokanth called Mr Greatness and win big gambling on the trollball match taking place.

Week 3 - Players travel down the otherside of the mountain, one player goes off and seeks the legendary Bison Tower, he ends up questing on the Spirit Plane and brings back a magical lance and defeats the Bad Man Spirit and his army of Ghost Giants.

Week 4 - The Players arrive in Dykene, they befriend a King, are challenged to a duel by the captain of the guard. They prove their worth, one becomes a member of the King's household guard, the other chooses to become a mercanary selling his sword in the town. The first player has his try outs for the Hawk Riders, and successfully wins the right to train in riding a giant hawk.

Week 5 - The players are persuaded by the scholar Bluebird to help him find a Troll Tomb, the players find it and get to meet something, very startling a monster of epic proportions. (Which they ran away from).

There you go, five weeks of gaming from Caravan Guards to Action Heroes. Its the GM's style all right.

Cheers Simon

 

[aelius]

I agree that your GM is the one you have the problem with, not the game. Runequest is my favorite game because of the realism. However realism does not prevent you from being heroic. My character was at a reception for a visiting princess when there was an assassination attempt on her and the local king. Since the King was present I had no weapons and had to use a chair as my weapon to defend the princess. I blew through 3 hero points, but that is what they are there for. To let a realistic game system be "heroic".
And I did manage to save the princess.

 

[The King]

In D&D PC's are always treated like heroes and saviors. They fight goblins at level 1 and dragons at level 20. Thus they just get better to have better magical items and fight bigger critters. What a progress! The problem is that there are no more deities and demigods with stats at high levels. What a pity. In RQ the PC's feels the evolution of their own experience because the game is character-centred. No need to compare their progress with other critters.

In fact it is all about the way you are gaming. D&D relies heavily on fights after fights while RQ and its panel of skills allows for more balanced adventures and PC's can do investigations without fighting in every scene (they don't need to kill to progress in experience).

So it all depend the way you like to play.

 

[aelius]

I like the fact that no matter how awesome you get, a lesser skilled guy can still hit you. And with damage as deadly as it is you can be taken out by one blow. It makes fights a challenge, even if your opponent isn't in your league. Sure you can probably punk the town guard, but you never can tell when he is going to get lucky.

 

[Utgardloki]

I have not had the experience of playing Mongoose's incarnation of Runequest, but thinking about it, it looks like entry-level PCs in Runequest should have better odds of surviving than 1st level D&D PCs, IF the RQ PC is maximised for a good defense.

Dungeons and Dragons has all characters limited by experience level, which means that even a 1st level PC who is maximised for defense is at risk of being taken down by a lucky goblin or orc. Runequest PCs can start out with a very high Dodge and Resilience and hero points that can help keep her alive through an adventure.

I don't know if this theory works in practice. Obviously the D&D character will soon get to be more survivable. I had a thread here about an 11th level D&D Barbarian just marching through a horde of zombies and how a Runequest character could probably never do a feat like that. But at the starting point, will a Runequest character be able to survive more low-level threats than a D&D character?

 

[RosenMcStern]

Yes, it is definitely your GM. Like Simon and others, I have played games that started at caravan guard level or so, and ended up kicking demigod a**es (you can read the report of my holiday games at BRP Central, basically we re-enacted the Myth of Storm Bull smashing the Devil under the Block using the King of Broos as our sparring partner - and please note that his average combat skill score is 350%). It is a matter of how fast your GM lets you increase experience and find new magic items, runes, etc.

As Simon explained, an experienced GM can bring a party from peons to Rune Levels in about two years of real time, without making it too easy for the PCs. And once you reach rune level, the fact that your character had to work it up really hard increases the fun and prevents overestimating one's strength.