Illustration: Guass Pistol and Snub Pistol

[wbnc]

Working on a few things for next project so to get my mind off that mess I decided to rework an old design...this time theGuass pistol, and the Snub pistol. Or at least one possible style for the weapons.

the Gauss pistol has a secondary power source under the the barrel and projectiles are fed from a magazine in the grip. the power cell holds enough charge for multiple magazines and can be recharged from any vehicle powerplant or standard household current. the Projectiles are spin stabilized using variations in the magnetic coils that make up the barrel to spin the projectile. I went with that concept over fin stabilized rounds . since it has to function in vacuum as well as atmospheric conditions spin stabilization is needed..fin stabilized rounds won't work without airflow over projectile.

the snub pistol uses a power cell integrated into the magazine instead...the module under the barrel is for electronics and other accessories the enlarged guard allows someone wearing heavy gloves to use the weapon and still functions as a trigger guard.

both weapons use optic sights, the Snub pistol uses a simple reflex sight with no magnification or enhanced optics. It's intended for quick reactions and firing in response to sudden threats. someone who wanted better optics could easily add low magnification or low light optics instead.

the guass pistol has Low magnification and low light sights allowing the shooter to take advantage of its better range and accuracy. The length of the weapon makes it a bit harder to use in close. the difference isn't major about the same as using a long barreled hunting pistol in close combat.

 

[legozhodani]

Look way too 'chunky' for my liking. If I had to lug that lump around I'd give up and carry a normal autopistol. Sleek look is nice, but too 40k for my tastes.

Would be nice to see some ideas though, I like the ship stuff you do.

 

[steve98052]

I never had the impression that the Snub Pistol itself was a particularly advanced weapon, other than (possibly) advanced materials. Rather, it's a fairly ordinary six-shot revolver that fires advanced ammunition that uses a very low-powered propellant charge in the chamber to get the projectile out the barrel, then a secondary charge to boost it to a high enough speed to hurt something upon impact.

I have no idea how it's supposed to do that in the very close ranges it's meant to be used, but maybe that's a hand-wave. On the other hand, canon says its muzzle velocity of 100 to 150 meters per second. The speed of sound in air is about 340 m/s. Except for some suppressed pistols, almost every bullet is supersonic, combat rifle rounds are often in the neighborhood of 900 m/s, a Gauss Rifle round is 1500 m/s, and a VRF Gauss gun is 4500 m/s. Maybe the rounds don't need a speed boost because they're low-velocity by design.

For rounds other than a plain kinetic bullet, it's less puzzling: it doesn't need a velocity boost because the high explosive, high explosive armor piercing, tranquilizer, or gas round doesn't need extra velocity.

I suppose it's possible that the Snub might use some sort of electrical ignition instead of an impact primer; in that case it would need either a battery cover, a charging cable socket, or an inductive charging surface, but I don't recall any mention of batteries for them in earlier editions of Traveller. If it's electrical ignition, maybe it comes in several models.

There's another version of Snub Pistol that is specifically mentioned in past editions: the 20-round combat model. It's going to be a funny looking piece of hardware. Because the rounds are 10 mm in diameter, a magazine of 20 has to 20 cm long, plus space for springs and any other overhead. That will look funny on a weapon that's only 10 cm (according to canon) from the tip of the barrel to the rear end.

I was going to say that the two types of weapons pictured look too similar for such different designs, but revising the Snub Pistol to match the canon description will make it completely unlike your Gauss pistol design.

 

[wbnc]

I have a slightly better version now, will probably keep the guass pistol pic and use the other one as an auto pistol....

A low initial velocity is not hard to pull off, a small gas or powder charge would do the trick. but 150 M/s is slightly faster than an arrow out of a modern recurve bow. A good paintball rifle shoots at around 90M/s..and I have sidestepped out of the way of those...

A 20 round 10mm magazine may be a bit unwieldy for a small pistol.Using a double stacked magazine it would not be overly bulky. My 9mm has an 18 round magazine. and 20 round magazines aren't that uncommon.

 

[wbnc]

take 2

 

[steve98052]

. . . 150 M/s is slightly faster than an arrow out of a modern recurve bow. A good paintball rifle shoots at around 90M/s..and I have sidestepped out of the way of those...

I think the presumption is that in typical use, ranges will be short enough that dodging isn't easy. For example, the longest open corridor on a Type "R" Akkigish Fat Trader is only about ten meters, which probably doesn't allow enough reaction time to dodge a paintball, or a 100 m/s tranquilizer round. Sleep tight!

I would imagine that although the propellant charge portion of a Snub Pistol round would be fairly short because there's so little propellant, the bullets would be rather long.
- A tranquilizer round would probably need fins to keep the injection tip forward, and those require some length to separate the center of mass and center of drag.
- A gas round could consist of two liquid vessels separated by a membrane that is ruptured by the propellant kick, and an outer vessel that's ruptured by the combination of internal pressure (from the gas-generating reaction between the two liquids) and the impact against the target, or maybe internal pressure alone.
- A high explosive armor piercing round would probably need fins to keep the shaped charge (and fuze) forward, and enough length for the detonator, shaped charge itself, and required standoff distance, which could be a pretty long projectile.
- A plain HE round would be comparatively short, but seven grams of high explosive would still be quite a stick in a 10 mm cylinder.
- A ball round could be very compact, even if made from a medium density metal such as iron. To make it at all effective as a weapon round, it would probably best be pointy with fins.
- A target round would probably work best if it were made of fairly low-strength plastic, formed to match the performance of a real round.

 

[Infojunky]

A quick note on Snub pistols:

At 100 to 150 m/s the fired round is in the same speed range as a Paintball Marker

The 7 gram, 10mm HE round is going to look a lot like a nerf dart, when you take the density of Plastic explosive into account.

Snub ammunition is traditionally single stage. Though I have assumed and postulated that higher tech level ammo is two stage providing for a longer range.

 

[wbnc]

. . . 150 M/s is slightly faster than an arrow out of a modern recurve bow. A good paintball rifle shoots at around 90M/s..and I have sidestepped out of the way of those...

I think the presumption is that in typical use, ranges will be short enough that dodging isn't easy. For example, the longest open corridor on a Type "R" Akkigish Fat Trader is only about ten meters, which probably doesn't allow enough reaction time to dodge a paintball, or a 100 m/s tranquilizer round. Sleep tight!

I would imagine that although the propellant charge portion of a Snub Pistol round would be fairly short because there's so little propellant, the bullets would be rather long.
- A tranquilizer round would probably need fins to keep the injection tip forward, and those require some length to separate the center of mass and center of drag.
- A gas round could consist of two liquid vessels separated by a membrane that is ruptured by the propellant kick, and an outer vessel that's ruptured by the combination of internal pressure (from the gas-generating reaction between the two liquids) and the impact against the target, or maybe internal pressure alone.
- A high explosive armor piercing round would probably need fins to keep the shaped charge (and fuze) forward, and enough length for the detonator, shaped charge itself, and required standoff distance, which could be a pretty long projectile.
- A plain HE round would be comparatively short, but seven grams of high explosive would still be quite a stick in a 10 mm cylinder.
- A ball round could be very compact, even if made from a medium density metal such as iron. To make it at all effective as a weapon round, it would probably best be pointy with fins.
- A target round would probably work best if it were made of fairly low-strength plastic, formed to match the performance of a real round.

I think that's a pretty good breakdown of how they would be put together.

I sort of envision the as being a low power Gyrojet type round. a cylinder with a rounded tip. the base of the round has small nozzles drilled at angles so that the exhaust spins the round...that way it can work in a vacuum as well as an atmosphere.

the ball round still make very little sense to me...the velocity is so low it would take a stroke of insane luck to inflict damage with any kinetic round..it would basically be a riot control round at best, inflict pain and bruising but no internal damage at all.

A quick note on Snub pistols:

At 100 to 150 m/s the fired round is in the same speed range as a Paintball Marker

The 7 gram, 10mm HE round is going to look a lot like a nerf dart, when you take the density of Plastic explosive into account.

Snub ammunition is traditionally single stage. Though I have assumed and postulated that higher tech level ammo is two stage providing for a longer range.

Sounds reasnable enhanced rounds are probably high on the list for gunmakers

 

[Condottiere]

The arrow or a bolt tends to have a pointy bit on top and a shaft.

 

[steve98052]

The 7 gram, 10mm HE round is going to look a lot like a nerf dart, when you take the density of Plastic explosive into account.

Just from the math, I knew that it would be a small stick of boom, but the Nerf dart image is a much more amusing and memorable description.

Working out the math, I find that a 10 mm, gram cylinder of 1.6 g/cc explosive (a typical density) would be about 5.6 cm long. Fins would make it even longer, but a fragmentation case would shorten it. Add some space for the propellant and it's going to be a funny looking round. And fitting it into a revolver that's only 10 cm long means the gun will be pretty funny looking too. Given the low pressure of such a low velocity round, it might not add too much weight to build it as six full barrels, rather than ordinary revolver look.

Snub ammunition is traditionally single stage. Though I have assumed and postulated that higher tech level ammo is two stage providing for a longer range.

The two stage, low-recoil weapon is the often-forgotten Accelerator Rifle, which has a similarly low launch velocity, but a secondary propellant in the projectile.

I sort of envision the as being a low power Gyrojet type round. a cylinder with a rounded tip. the base of the round has small nozzles drilled at angles so that the exhaust spins the round...that way it can work in a vacuum as well as an atmosphere.

I'm not sure a Snub Pistol needs to work in vacuum, but it's designed forZero G. I would have to look through a bunch of books for a clear answer, I think.
I'm not sure what kind of fuze it would take to make the explosive rounds reliable. Regular HE could have a time fuze, set by a rangefinder in the gun, if the gun detects inadequate atmospheric pressure for fins to keep it head first. HEAP would have to fly tip first, or else it's more likely to spit its armor piercing jet away from the target than through the armor.

Tranquilizer and ball rounds would just bounce off harmlessly from even the lightest Vacc Suit. Even HE might have trouble hurting anyone through Vacc Suit micrometeoroid armor without a contact detonation. Gas rounds are comically useless in vacuum, or any atmosphere thin enough to require breathing assistance.

A rangefinder time fuze wouldn't make sense for anything except plain HE in vacuum or gas in breathable atmosphere, and it seems too complicated for the stated price of the weapon.

Maybe the right answer is that a Snub Pistol has an atmospheric pressure interlock, and just turns to the next cylinder if the round is useless in vacuum. The combat version probably doesn't make sense with mixed magazines, so its interlock would probably just refuse to fire. Either one might have an override to allow for the possibility that the interlock measures the pressure wrong.

the ball round still make very little sense to me...the velocity is so low it would take a stroke of insane luck to inflict damage with any kinetic round..it would basically be a riot control round at best, inflict pain and bruising but no internal damage at all.

One possible solid round that might have some actual combat use would be more like a hunting arrow tip than a slug. A slug would make sense only as a bruiser or varmint round. Even as a target round a metal slug is suboptimal, because a practice round should match the characteristics of a regular round.

 

[Infojunky]

The 7 gram, 10mm HE round is going to look a lot like a nerf dart, when you take the density of Plastic explosive into account.

Just from the math, I knew that it would be a small stick of boom, but the Nerf dart image is a much more amusing and memorable description.

Working out the math, I find that a 10 mm, gram cylinder of 1.6 g/cc explosive (a typical density) would be about 5.6 cm long. Fins would make it even longer, but a fragmentation case would shorten it. Add some space for the propellant and it's going to be a funny looking round. And fitting it into a revolver that's only 10 cm long means the gun will be pretty funny looking too. Given the low pressure of such a low velocity round, it might not add too much weight to build it as six full barrels, rather than ordinary revolver look.

Amusingly several current pistol manufacturers produce revolvers for 410 shotgun shells. http://www.taurususa.com/gun-selector-results.cfm?series=41&toggle=tr

Though often when doodling Snub Revolvers I have placed the cylinder in front of the trigger with the entire cylinder being replaceable for reloading. I have also considered other configurations such as a Pepperbox as well as larger and smaller cylinders such as a 8 round cylinder.

Tranquilizer and ball rounds would just bounce off harmlessly from even the lightest Vacc Suit. Even HE might have trouble hurting anyone through Vacc Suit micrometeoroid armor without a contact detonation. Gas rounds are comically useless in vacuum, or any atmosphere thin enough to require breathing assistance.

I am not sure a ball round as anything other than a practice round would exist. In that the Snub gun is a ordinance delivery device optimised for Low and Zero gravity situations. One though I have considered is that effective ranges could be probably extended in ZeroG situations.

 

[Condottiere]

One problem is that at that velocity, a strong breeze could alter the trajectory.

But snub ammunition is ideal for derringers.

 

[steve98052]

Though often when doodling Snub Revolvers I have placed the cylinder in front of the trigger with the entire cylinder being replaceable for reloading. I have also considered other configurations such as a Pepperbox as well as larger and smaller cylinders such as a 8 round cylinder.

A pepperbox would suit a snub pistol well, because the low propellant load would allow lightweight barrel materials. Additionally, to keep it short but still have some barrel length, it might be able to dispense with the mechanical firing pin in favor of piezoelectric firing, like some larger butane lighters.

To add a bit more high-tech feel (since it's listed as a TL8 weapon), the ammunition could be caseless, maybe more accurately described as combustible-case. And for another retro touch, the pepperbox revolver could be muzzle loaded, with a catch to keep the rounds from falling out, and a release to change out unfired rounds.

One problem is that at that velocity, a strong breeze could alter the trajectory.

But snub ammunition is ideal for derringers.

Since it's designed for shipboard use, strong breezes probably aren't often encountered.

If by "Derringer" you mean highly concealable handguns, the Body Pistol is even better. It's even more concealable, and it's more powerful in spite of the small caliber.

 

[wbnc]

The pepperbox, and Derringer style pistols would be feasible. Perhaps, even more cost effective than a traditional semi-automatic pistol. Using a derringer multi-barrel body an electronic firing mechanism the guns only moving part might be the trigger. If you fitted the rounds into "Half Moon", or "Full Moon" Clips the weapons would be easily reloaded without having to insert each round individually.

Ths seems to be a good layout for the snub round perhaps different dimensions to fit into a smaller frame.

 

[steve98052]

The pepperbox, and Derringer style pistols would be feasible. Perhaps, even more cost effective than a traditional semi-automatic pistol. Using a derringer multi-barrel body an electronic firing mechanism the guns only moving part might be the trigger. If you fitted the rounds into "Half Moon", or "Full Moon" Clips the weapons would be easily reloaded without having to insert each round individually.

If the rounds are caseless -- a TL8 technology, I think -- a muzzle loading speed-loader would be workable, since the only advantage a Moon clip has over a speed-loader is quick extraction of the empty cases.

Ths seems to be a good layout for the snub round perhaps different dimensions to fit into a smaller frame.

That's neat, but I had to copy and paste the URL to see it.

 

[Condottiere]