Ideas for Personel Sheilds

[Infojunky]

So, the boy is intrested in Traveller, and I have been pondering running a FPS sorta game.

So personnel shields How would you do them?

One idea is just a ablative add on to armor.. once protection is knocked down it regenerates at a fixed rate per turn...

The other is shields are rated in numbers of dice, the dice are rolled to reduce incoming damage. As dice are rolled they go away until the recharge.

I am not worried about Tech Levels or the like, I am just trying to replicate mechanics in a number FPS games...

 

[Greylond]

Personally I think that would be something way over any tech level as presented in the game. For example there is a Repulsor Shield in the Central Supply Catalog and that requires a Backpack for power that is only good for 25 rounds at most. Something like what you see in Halo would, IMO, be a much higher TL.

 

[Infojunky]

Personally I think that would be something way over any tech level as presented in the game. For example there is a Repulsor Shield in the Central Supply Catalog and that requires a Backpack for power that is only good for 25 rounds at most. Something like what you see in Halo would, IMO, be a much higher TL.

That is why I am not particularly worried about Tech Levels, I am just looking at mechanics. Meaning if Hammer's Slammers and Dread can fit into Traveller the rules system, this isn't much of a push.

The game I am planning has lots of Traveller elements, but isn't the 3rd Imperium.

While Halo is definitely a FPS, and does have some part in the backgrounds I am stealing from, but is nowhere near a majority Stakeholder, think more on the lines of the Borderlands games and other Post Apocalyptic goodness, with a healthy dose of Star Wars tossed in. All rolled up in Nori of Old school cyberpunk (the literary genre, not the game).

 

[AndrewW]

Reduces damage from each die, say 1 per die.

Can absorb a total of say 40 damage, but a maximum of 5 per hit, once all 40 are used needs a recharge.

Arbitrary numbers of course.

 

[Greylond]

Meaning if Hammer's Slammers and Dread can fit into Traveller the rules system, this isn't much of a push.

IMO, bad example. As a long time fan of Hammer's Slammers I don't think that Mongoose's is a very good version of it.

 

[Infojunky]

Meaning if Hammer's Slammers and Dread can fit into Traveller the rules system, this isn't much of a push.

IMO, bad example. As a long time fan of Hammer's Slammers I don't think that Mongoose's is a very good version of it.

To be honest I haven't read it, might I ask why you think it fails?

 

[Greylond]

Meaning if Hammer's Slammers and Dread can fit into Traveller the rules system, this isn't much of a push.

IMO, bad example. As a long time fan of Hammer's Slammers I don't think that Mongoose's is a very good version of it.

To be honest I haven't read it, might I ask why you think it fails?

The artwork appears to be by artists who have never read any of the books. So bad in a couple of instances it seems like the artist didn't even read the basic description of the item/scene being draw. Case in point the artwork for the powergun ammo. In Hammer's Slammers the powergun ammo is described as being disks and the artwork in the RPG is clearly ovoid. Based on the artwork alone it is kinda hard visualizing the amount of ammo held in a magazine given in the text. IMO, artwork in an RPG should complement the text, not contradict it.

A lot of the fluff seems to be written by someone who either never read the book, just read a synopsis or cliff notes of it. Or if it was done by a fan, then it is someone who is just a bad writer. Now, I haven't played it, just read most of it, but that one read was enough to turn me off of it. For all I know it plays Ok, but as a Slammer's fan, I wasn't happy with the overall presentation of it.

 

[Infojunky]

The artwork appears to be by artists who have never read any of the books. So bad in a couple of instances it seems like the artist didn't even read the basic description of the item/scene being draw. Case in point the artwork for the powergun ammo. In Hammer's Slammers the powergun ammo is described as being disks and the artwork in the RPG is clearly ovoid. Based on the artwork alone it is kinda hard visualizing the amount of ammo held in a magazine given in the text. IMO, artwork in an RPG should complement the text, not contradict it.

A lot of the fluff seems to be written by someone who either never read the book, just read a synopsis or cliff notes of it. Or if it was done by a fan, then it is someone who is just a bad writer. Now, I haven't played it, just read most of it, but that one read was enough to turn me off of it. For all I know it plays Ok, but as a Slammer's fan, I wasn't happy with the overall presentation of it.

Ok, I get that completely. I kinda had that feeling when I 1st saw the miniatures by Old Crow, but now they are pretty much what I see now when I think of them.

 

[Lord High Munchkin]

Off the top of my head there are a few issues to think about:

What happens when the shield is hit? (both narratively and rules wise), and is there any variation by mode of attack?

Do they protect against all types of attack? Or only some? (as in 'Dune')

What happens when someone using a shield swipes someone/thing while wearing it? Or in the case of two shield wearers wrestling?

Is the wearer knocked back by any of the dissipated force? Does this vary by mode of attack?

Personally I don't think that TL is such an important factor... it is certainly if you play 3rd Imperium, but as I don't, I don't have to worry about the (slightly to my taste, off) technological progression that that setting implies. There are loads of other backgrounds that do use personal shields and the rules (with a little lateral thinking) should be able to handle such devices.

That is just initial thoughts, but their presence in a setting will make changes to a whole cascade of topics.

 

[alex_greene]

The objective of a personal shield in Traveller would be the development of some sort of man-portable device which emits a field of force which intercepts the kinetic energy of an impinging round and somehow dissipates it, reducing the impact of the round or deflecting it entirely.

Outside of the 3I cage, it could be doable using some form of focused grav technology. Let's say a setting has the rudiments of shield technology at TL 11, based on the development of grav containment technology at TL 9 which made fusion feasible. Initially, the device is so heavy that it is only really usable with bus-sized vehicles, and military forces initially develop them at TL 12 as a means of defence for tanks, APC units and so on; at TL 13, they become available for commercial and civilian vehicles (for crash prevention and reduction of fatalities and injuries) and at TL 14, the first personal shields could appear for military personnel. Initially only feasible as part of combat armour and battle dress, the shield becomes portable by unarmoured or lightly-armoured personnel at TL 15.

Presidents and dignitaries at that high level are surrounded by bodyguards wearing these shields as discreet little backpacks, creating overlapping fields to protect their charges against assassins' bullets - but probably not from lasers, explosives or plasma weapons, and perhaps not from slow weapons.

I'm thinking of the technologies of Dune here, and possibly also Larry Niven's sonic folds from Ringworld - though the latter would be used more specifically to create a hypersonic force field configuration with a vehicle in the centre to permit high-speed flight even with an unaerodynamic shape such as a flycycle or a human wearing a grav belt.

Rough scales of mass, cost and effectiveness, off the top of my head:-

TL 12 - Heavy Shield - 200 kg - Cr. 350,000 - negates four dice of damage

TL 13 - Heavy Shield - 200 kg - Cr. 300,000 - negates six dice of damage
TL 13 - Vehicular Shield - 100 kg - Cr. 250,000 - negates four dice of vehicle impact damage

TL 14 - Heavy Shield - 200 kg - Cr. 600,000 - negates eight dice of damage
TL 14 - Vehicular Shield - 50 kg - Cr. 550,000 - negates six dice of vehicle impact damage
TL 14 - Personal Shield - 20 kg - Cr. 650,000 - negates four dice of kinetic weapons damage

TL 15 - Heavy Shield - 100 kg - Cr. 700,000 - negates eight dice of damage
TL 15 - Vehicular Shield - 20 kg - Cr. 650,000 - negates six dice of vehicle impact damage
TL 15 - Personal Shield - 10 kg - Cr. 550,000 - negates four dice of kinetic weapons damage

TL 16 - Heavy Shield - 20 kg - Cr. 800,000 - negates ten dice of damage
TL 16 - Vehicular Shield - 10 kg - Cr. 850,000 - negates eight dice of vehicle impact damage
TL 16 - Personal Shield - 5 kg - Cr. 950,000 - negates six dice of kinetic weapons damage

TL 17 - Heavy Shield - 5 kg - negates 20 dice of damage
TL 17 - Vehicular Shield - 2 kg - negates 16 dice of vehicle impact damage
TL 17 - Personal Shield - 1 kg - negates 12 dice of kinetic weapons damage

TL 21+, it's the size of a finger ring and stops practically anything, up to Starship scale weapons damage.

 

[CosmicGamer]

Lord High Munchkin listed some of the issues

Personally I don't think that TL is such an important factor

It's import because of

That is just initial thoughts, but their presence in a setting will make changes to a whole cascade of topics.

If the tech is commonly available and not some ancient "one off" tech, some thought needs to be put into how it might develop, which alex_greene gets into, and also possible applications and related technologies.

- Are ships shielded. Installations, vehicles, buildings, mad scientist bases built in asteroids, whole planets? Certainly battle armor.
- Would force fields be a variation? Hijackers get on board a ship and you block their path to the bridge with a "shield". Trap them by surrounding them with a shield?
- What about "holding" shields? What happens after you stop a speeding projectile, could it be held in place? Where else might such tech be... replace holding clamps for ships docking in zero G, alternative to magnetic boots for workers in zero G, special boots for prisoners so that they can be locked down (forget what movies I've seen this in)...
- Is repulser tech available too. If you can stop a speeding projectile, how much harder would it be to push it away? How far? How fast? Maybe repulsers as a non lethal crowd control type weapon.
- Once you can hold and repulse, would more finite control such as tractor beams be available allowing you to move objects around? Great system for cargo handling, unmanned traffic control for guiding ships in and out, all kinds of possibilities. No step ladder needed to change a light bulb!


How available (cost or legal restrictions) will it be?
High availability could skew combat, crime, and other things.
Combat was typically lethal, will people now need nuclear weapons to do any damage?
Would typical restrictions on weapons now be loosened because everyone with anything worth taking would be shielded making certain archaic weapons just collectors items?

The limitations of the shields would have to be well thought out for those wishing to circumvent them or exploit a weakness such as their high energy output which makes locating people using them so much easier. lock on target. fire short range self guided shoulder launched missiles....

 

[Hopeless]

How are normal shields dealt with?

I'd have ruled that they can stop a number of dice of damage but as noted above run for a number of rounds before they need to recharge.

Question is do we go with a small shield that would fit on one arm or a force field belt that provides total protection but doesn't prevent the wearer from being knocked off their feet by a blast?

If its ablative do you roll those dice it can counter but still rule 1pt goes through no matter what since it would ordinarily be absorbed by the body armour say a vacc suit and should it require an external power source so it can recharge or just swap batteries to avoid depleting the vacc suit or whatever else runs on the back up power source?

Is it air proof requiring a vacc suit is something I should have pointed out!

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

So personnel shields How would you do them?

I'd have to know more about the type of shield it is and how it works and defends against various things, in order to do a proper clean mechanic for it that is Mongoose Traveller compatible and that is easy to manage/operate.

Armor does not degrade in Traveller's game design, as far as I know. So I assume your shield does not suffer damage also? I'll treat the shield as an alien technology.

 

[Old timer]

The secret of the ancients campaign has rules for personal shields, they are in part 6 of the campaign. The basic mechanic is if hit by a weapon, roll 2d6, if you roll 3+ the hit is ignored, but hits after the first apply a -1DM, so to stop the second hit would require 4+ and so on. The fuller rules are in the mentioned part in a side text box (page 11).

 

[Greylond]

The Central Supply Catalog has rules for normal shields.

Depending on the size there is a DM to the attack and then if hit, the shield has an Armor Value.

 

[Infojunky]

I'm thinking of the technologies of Dune here, and possibly also Larry Niven's sonic folds from Ringworld - though the latter would be used more specifically to create a hypersonic force field configuration with a vehicle in the centre to permit high-speed flight even with an unaerodynamic shape such as a flycycle or a human wearing a grav belt.

.

I clipped a bunch, but great stuff to ponder, and yes I am still pounding out the implications.

My campaign plan is to get the bits necessary for play at the introduction of the world to the PCs stage and develop the sandbox from there as they start to explore.

As it stands basic point based character gen, basic tools, weapons/armor/shield-belts and the core environment are the Highest Priority goals.

 

[Infojunky]

What happens when the shield is hit? (both narratively and rules wise), and is there any variation by mode of attack?

Do they protect against all types of attack? Or only some? (as in 'Dune')

What happens when someone using a shield swipes someone/thing while wearing it? Or in the case of two shield wearers wrestling?

Is the wearer knocked back by any of the dissipated force? Does this vary by mode of attack?

Sure, go make me thinks about all those niggling details....

Yes, am hammering out the basics, was just pondering front end details, and personal shields is just one of the details I haven't thought about much about in terms of Traveller especially as compared and contrasted with the source material.

Personally I don't think that TL is such an important factor... it is certainly if you play 3rd Imperium, but as I don't, I don't have to worry about the (slightly to my taste, off) technological progression that that setting implies. There are loads of other backgrounds that do use personal shields and the rules (with a little lateral thinking) should be able to handle such devices.

Yep. And as a fellow life long Traveller Heretic, I am here asking about how to bring a larger breath of SF into the Traveller fold, without each new piece or concept being a "super" tech, more just trying to expand the normal.

That is just initial thoughts, but their presence in a setting will make changes to a whole cascade of topics.

Yes they do, and no they don't, it all about finding what is normal....

 

[Infojunky]

The secret of the ancients campaign has rules for personal shields, they are in part 6 of the campaign. The basic mechanic is if hit by a weapon, roll 2d6, if you roll 3+ the hit is ignored, but hits after the first apply a -1DM, so to stop the second hit would require 4+ and so on. The fuller rules are in the mentioned part in a side text box (page 11).

Cool, I haven't read the new and Improved SoA yet....

 

[Infojunky]

The Central Supply Catalog has rules for normal shields.

Depending on the size there is a DM to the attack and then if hit, the shield has an Armor Value.

I'll go look at that book again, though I tell you it makes my eyes bleed, needs an index....

 

[Greylond]

The Central Supply Catalog has rules for normal shields.

Depending on the size there is a DM to the attack and then if hit, the shield has an Armor Value.

I'll go look at that book again, though I tell you it makes my eyes bleed, needs an index....

Yea it does...

Page 42-44.