How often does inter system war actually happen?

[MasterGwydion]

Back to the OP though, how often do wars occur between planets? Between planets within the Imperium? Nothing I have read says that two Imperial worlds can't go to war. As long as they do not interfere with Trade or use Nukes, the Imperium, by and large, doesn't seem to care what the individual worlds do to each other. If you go "Scorched Planet" though, the Imperium will take notice and then you will have to fight the might of the 3I, and not just one planet.

 

[Sigtrygg]

They are so common that:
mercenaries make a comfortable living
there are rules that must be obeyed
they coined the term trade war

 

[Nelphine]

Ive always been given the impression that mercenaries were generally for wars on a planet - so wars that are largely ground based.

Not to say there aren't star mercenaries, but they don't seem nearly as common.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Ive always been given the impression that mercenaries were generally for wars on a planet - so wars that are largely ground based.

Not to say there aren't star mercenaries, but they don't seem nearly as common.

I was just reading over some of the Spinward Marches material, and it seems to say that there are almost constant small wars between the Dukes Marqui, and Counts of the Marches and Deneb Sectors, mostly between subsector Dukes and below.

 

[Condottiere]

As I understand it, you can't annex another planet in the Imperium.

Doesn't say you can't have client states.

So there might be quite a number of proxy wars, between powerful subsector nobles and/or megacorporations.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Tell that to Garda Vilis.

 

[Condottiere]

Maybe mandate.

Someone would have to sign off on it.

 

[MasterGwydion]

The Imperium doesn't have any say in who controls a world. You want to annex a world, go ahead. Just don't let Trade be disrupted or the 3I will get miffed. The 3I allows minor wars between members as a "pressure-release valve". Without this, they figure that things will eventually explode into larger wars, which then the Imperial Navy must respond to.

 

[Condottiere]

But I don't think they allow extraplanetary sovereignty, beyond hundred diameters.

Exceptions would be start up colonies, and research stations.

 

[Nelphine]

I'd think they'd allow thinks like mining stations as well? 'We claim this asteroid in the name of planet bob'

 

[Condottiere]

Treading on megacorporation toes.

Probably, if only as caretakers, until the local electorate can establish their own viable government.

 

[Nelphine]

For the purpose of the discussion, wouldn't a megacorp simply be a multi-planet polity? Why would 3I treat them any differently? And if megacorps are permitted, wouldn't multiplanet governments be as well?

 

[Condottiere]

They have possible extraterritoriality for their compounds, and likely butter up the local authorities.

I think it's a gray area, deliberately so, in that the Imperium could intervene directly on megacorporation directly controlled planets or planetoids, since I would bet that's written into their charter(s).

 

[MasterGwydion]

But I don't think they allow extraplanetary sovereignty, beyond hundred diameters.

Exceptions would be start up colonies, and research stations.

Why wouldn't the Imperium permit this? They don't control the planets. (There are exceptions, such as Capital and a few others) They only control the space between worlds and between star systems. With obvious exceptions for Starports and granted Fiefs.

 

[Vormaerin]

It seems very unlikely that the system governments don't have the ability to set up additional colonies, mining stations, and all the rest. I imagine it is like most situations where you have local and national government. The Imperium has primacy in space. Local government can't impose laws that restrict trade in space or on Imperial administered starports. They can travel around their own system and engage in economic activity. The whole point is to increase economic activity and trade, after all.

 

[Sigtrygg]

In the original Library Data the first/lowest tier of Imperial government is the sub-sector Duke. They are tasked with seeing to the economic well being of the worlds within their sub-sectors, overseeing the deployment of Imperial resources, and ensuring that worlds pay their taxes.

Rivalry exists between sub-sector Dukes, they are competing for limited Naval assets, they are trying to encourage megacorporation investment within their sub-sector, and they are constantly striving to exploit the resources the sub-sector offers.
A sub-sector Duke who can encourage the development of a couple of high pop worlds, or a nice mix of industrial, rich and agricultural worlds, will have considerably more influence at the sector level - and may even aspire one day to that lofty position.

So how to stop your neighbours doing the same? What if a world just over the sub-sector border offers great trade potential?


Megacorportions are the power behind the throne of the Imperium. They exploit the resources, operate the refineries and factories, transport the goods to market. They conduct exploration - to find new markets and resources - they conduct research and development - to stay ahead of the competition, they found colonies, buy and sell whole worlds, and pay their taxes...

So what if a rival company is making inroads into your market share? What if a world that used to provide the raw materials for your factories decides to trade with someone else? What if an upstart transport company starts to undercut your transport monopoly? What if another megacorporation perceives your foothold in a particular region to be weak and ripe for takeover... hostile takeover.

Individual planets are free to govern themselves as they see fit. They are free to build their own naval ships, to subsidise trade, develop their own economies, exploit their own resources...

So what if a rival world has ambitions to claim an uninhabited part of your system, or you want to develop the potential in another worlds system because they lack the resources?

So basically I can see how each of the above groups would sponsor raiders within the territory of their rivals.

By claiming "Trade War" you have partial immunity from the IN blowing you out of space because of your activities. The letter of marque is a natural extension of this IMHO.

This helps me to explain three things:

how the pirate career can have such a well defined structure

where Corsair class "speculative traders" come from (and why it is a standard design )

how pirates can find a ready market for their booty.


Since this is accepted business practice for megacorporations, it stands to reason that planetary governments and rival nobles can use the same "rules" to justify their ethically challenged trading practices

The Imperial Government ENCOURAGES this kind of infighting, in order to keep the locals too busy with each other to seriously consider rising against the imperium.

If the Dukes are busing infighting they are less likely to band together to challenge the sector Duke or even the Emperor himself.

And no sub-sector Duke can have much authority over a megacorppration.

 

[Condottiere]

That's probably the Ministry of Trade, and the Exchequer, if only to ensure there's no tax avoidance.

What European feudalism does teach, is that you don't want the nobility concentrating their landholds.

If there is fluidity in the nobility, is that you could move them about, to a new demesne, whether it's lateral, promotion, or a demotion.

Subsector duke seems more of a regional manager.

A prosperous and/or highly populated system should be a barony.

 

[phavoc]

Since the Imperium has continued to grow, progress and expand, I'd assume any minor dust-ups between competing entities are relatively minor brushwars consisting of minor raids and punitive actions as opposed to wholesale fleet and army warfare. The 100 years war may be a good example of how Princedoms regularly fought one another but the basic balance of power never really changed. Germany's 30 years war was a bit different, but ultimately ended with recognition that everyone had a place at the table.

Modern weapons make wide-scale destruction possible, but also inject a MAD into things. You can't afford to go scorched-earth on your enemy because they can do the same to you. And zealotry (i.e. nukes and other mass-killing weapons) will guarantee that the Imperium will step in and your nation will cease.

So I'd think, as others have pointed out, a healthy market for mercenaries as their services are more transactional in nature as opposed to nationalist troops. Then it's just a business activity rather than a state function. Also means you have plenty of opportunities for multiple actors within an area to get a piece of the action just by coming up with some credits (and, perhaps, finding some desperate mercs to take on a crappy contract with little chances of winning). I think this old maxim of "gold does not always get you good troops, but good troops can always get you gold" is especially apt in the Traveller universe.

One could also argue that warfare is more "gentlemanly" in Traveller, where you use your forces for very, very specific objectives. There's no reason to not expect nobles or other highly-placed wealthy individuals to use private armies and ships to count coup on an enemy to gain social standing or as a way to assuage their ginormous egos. This could also be a reason you find bored rich kids forming their own mercenary companies to show off to mommy/daddy that they ARE successful. In ye olde days you saw the spare heirs who aren't inheriting going off on things such as this because that was just how it was done.

It gets a bit tricker when looking at all-out warfare. Multi-system entities are verbotten in the Imperium, so even if you smashed your neighbor you are very limited in what you can do with them once you have conquered them. I'm sure the Imperium would take a very dim view of a group of planets that are all "very friendly" with a single entity that managed to overwhelm each of them and install pupped governments. That's a back-door empire, and the Imperium could not allow such a thing to exist if it hoped to keep its' confederation of planets working smoothly.

 

[Anstett]

New question spawned. For our historians of the 3I and other polities.

Are there any systems claimed by two different Governments?

I did a quick scan of balkanized worlds but did not spot any that have two different System governments claiming sovereignty over the physical assets of the system. Brought to mind by @Sigtrygg 's comment about raiding the other portion of a system.

 

[Condottiere]

I tend to think that mercenaries lends itself more to the puppet government/client state narrative.