Games workshop

[Aman]

ok, personally i think ( i mean my own personal opnion i'm not trying to start a argument hear) war hammer 40k has a better fluff because it's darker. i like the religious nonsense of the imperium, the tale of the god emporer and his great crusades. the horus herasy, then the age of imperium. the 40k fluff has a wonderful gothic feal to it. The only real problem with 40k fluff (and i think its a HUGE problem) is that you have to do reaserch. you have to read those second and first edition books. you need white dwarfs 99through 200. you need to waste time reding novels, books and codexs. the new codex's offer crap in the way of fluff. if you read the old books and doe a little reserch the 40k fluuf becomes very good. the problem is that the old fluff is hard to impossible to find nowadays, so you left with crap codexes that don't even give one tenth of the story. The advantage that sst has in the fluff department is that you only have to read one novel and thats it. from that one novel you can get the basic back ground information and go from their. any way thats what i think.[/quote]

Easy bud, I am just chatting, not going to take a dump on your thoughts...

Well, if the fantastical elements are what you like (ships powered by daemons, chaos gods with worshippers in outer space, etc) then 40K is definitely more fruitful for you. The thing that turned me off was not that it is impossible to figure it all out (I am OK not really understanding it all - reminds me of real life) but that some of it is totally silly. Like Orks in space! Just BEING in space requires serious discipline for any mammel to survive - NO WAY the orks, according to their fluff, could survive in space, build space ships, etc. Tau, Eldar, 'Oomies, Necrons and 'Nids, I can buy them all in space. But the orks are anachronistic, and impossible to sensibly fit in. and I say this as a WFB orc fan.

Also, I think a lot of the fluff is sado-masochitics embarrassment! Hlaf naked girls blindfolded and being whipped by a women in a corset-armor suit! Daemonettes, gross mutations and sickening sacrifices to pagen gods...it just doesn't work in a future in space. Heck, it's laughable here and now, much less 40K in the future. Trust me, most people with a real life hide their sisters repentia from their girlfriends and same with the daemonettes and other stuff. Silly, silly silly. Makes you wonder how often they let the sculptors out on dates. So while I liked a lot of the gothic church and other weird 40K stuff, it is a bit silly.

Now Heinlein's future is a lot more sensible, based upon our perspective. It is just a more realistic vision of the future, sorta like Star Trek or B5. While they have impossible gadgets and space travel in ships with artificial gravity (huh?), the general gist of the story is believable. And Heinlein wrote about 50 books that take place in his vision of the future, and about half or more are reconcilable to ONE vision of the future that he re-used as a continuous background in various novels and short stories. ST appears to be a one-off, as the bug wars, bugs and skinnies are not really mentioned in any of the other books, far as I know. But ANY of RH's novels still carry the FLAVOR of his future vision, sort of the same way that Philip K Dick books do. So for inspritational reading, I read a lot of his other books, also, and they are all good because he was a great story-teller. He won FOUR Hugo awards, an unbroken record to this day.

Well, you can send a lot of time researching Heinlein on your own, but PM me if you want some suggestions.

Anyway, I speak as a person who owns a Necron, Imperial Guard and Sisters of Battle army, so when I say I am fed up with 40K, it is from someone who has been there, loves the figs, is OK with a lot of the fluff and is now BORED with the rules, which is why I was open to ST in the first place.

Hope you find this long response interesting!

cheers!

 

[nick klose]

aman you post makes a lot of sence (by the way thanks for not dumping on my thoughts lol) at any rate a lot of the stuff you said make sence. the sisters repentia are pretty damb wierd. the demanets are strange granted but their design was to reprosent their god. (i still think the designer was sick in the head but i respect them for creating deamons that actually reprosent their god) as for fluff i guess it just comes down to personal opion. i just think that while the sst fluff is more relistic and probable, its just a little to clean for my liking. i'm still gonna enjoy the game but i'll probly shout crys to the god emporer as my marines charge into combat :wink:

 

[nick klose]

o ya and orks in space...ya kind stupid but when ya think about it would 40k be half the fun it is without large green skined devils stomping around the galixy killing and kicking ass

 

[Perma-guest]

i'm still gonna enjoy the game but i'll probly shout crys to the god emporer as my marines charge into combat :wink:

I hope you are kidding. I have seen many a person do this & not once has it impressed, scared or humored me. Truth be told, I felt embarrased for the sod.

Just play & have fun. 8)

 

[Bobby Hostile]

i'm still gonna enjoy the game but i'll probly shout crys to the god emporer as my marines charge into combat :wink:

I've seen people do this when playing. I like to shout stuff back like, "I like ponies!" or "Free pie in July!" My best return on laughter was my cry of "He found Captain Winky!" I mean it's all in good fun right? Like dancing with a woman named Larry... right?

 

[Turtle]

It's all about yelling appropriate movie quotes.

"Would you say a plethora of bugs?"

 

[Danny]

It's all about yelling appropriate movie quotes.

"Would you say a plethora of bugs?"

Yea. But then you would still feel sad.

WTF mate?

Dont ask. I was in a weired mood yesterday.

 

[Lonestar]

Now Heinlein's future is a lot more sensible, based upon our perspective. It is just a more realistic vision of the future, sorta like Star Trek or B5. While they have impossible gadgets and space travel in ships with artificial gravity (huh?), the general gist of the story is believable. And Heinlein wrote about 50 books that take place in his vision of the future, and about half or more are reconcilable to ONE vision of the future that he re-used as a continuous background in various novels and short stories. ST appears to be a one-off, as the bug wars, bugs and skinnies are not really mentioned in any of the other books, far as I know. But ANY of RH's novels still carry the FLAVOR of his future vision, sort of the same way that Philip K Dick books do. So for inspritational reading, I read a lot of his other books, also, and they are all good because he was a great story-teller. He won FOUR Hugo awards, an unbroken record to this day!

Do you read any Niven?

Anyway he wrote a shorts story once about a guy who invented a time machine to travel back in time to cure RH of a sickness that got him out of the navy and into writing Si-Fi novels.....

Which spawned all those writers to do Si-Fi and try to change the future (I think he was a congerasman, and a greenie to boot).

He succeded.....

And found his time drasticly changed, RH, didnt quite the navy, rose up to become the commander of the milatary, and made his dreams become reality, afterall, he was the man that approved the budgets......

PS, Larry Niven, has won a Hugo or 2 as well :wink:

 

[ianvancheese]

nice signature lord bob

 

[Lord Bob]

Yeah. Its off the Back of the Killzone cover.

Some of the 40k fluff is Kinda silly, but the Gaunts Ghosts Novels are ace!

 

[ianvancheese]

only read the first one, good book.
P.S i know, killzone ruled!

 

[byram]

I've seen people do this when playing. I like to shout stuff back like, "I like ponies!" or "Free pie in July!" My best return on laughter was my cry of "He found Captain Winky!" I mean it's all in good fun right? Like dancing with a woman named Larry... right?

oh christ lord bob......... i said the same thing about Capt. Winky awhile ago....sick minds think alike

 

[Bobby Hostile]

Uh dude, you quoted me and "replied" to Lord Bob.

Also, the fact that you accuse me of thinking like you... I may never post again. :lol:

 

[nick klose]

i'm still gonna enjoy the game but i'll probly shout crys to the god emporer as my marines charge into combat :wink:

I hope you are kidding. I have seen many a person do this & not once has it impressed, scared or humored me. Truth be told, I felt embarrased for the sod.

Just play & have fun. 8)

sorry i though by putting in a wink i was implying a joke. i was jokoing!

 

[AD]

Will GW disappear? Of course not! Will the retail store method work for them? I doubt it but who knows? Bottom line is that other games are continuing to make inroads, and the hobby market for this product is so small and so diffuse that it is impossible to tell if ST is attracting gamers who are new, who are adding to their 40K habit, or who will dump 40K, with any statistical reliability.

The retail store system has worked for years - Its part of the reason why Mongoose wont be as big as GW, or even comparable, for at least a decade.
The Infantry system is a state in the UK it really is and it makes me sad - I wont make comments about the sky marshall theiving my hard work and then booting me out like *ahem*.
Where the system falls short is that key things that have been crucial to the success of GW just arent happening with Mongoose. For instance. I moaned for months about Infantry setting up clubs. Marc Fairmond blocked me. If Mongoose dont set up a sustainable presence it'll exist but never be huge. It'll remain in the model shops alongside warmachine, confrontation, and GW.

i never supported GW. i just started cause it was the biggest company and everyone else had it.

I kind of like how after that posting ianvancheese you put 'SOD OFF! GO MONGOOSE'. Thats the kind of mindless fanboyism that pretty much killed 40k for anyone but marine players. It could be said your doing the same now with SST. Its the current big thing so everyones going oooooo pretty. Same happened with Gorkamorka ...
(I kind of like the fact that if you dont know it, or if you do, it still proves the same point)

me and several of my freinds are boy cotting GW, some will play only non-gw games, and some will play everything. but in my store we are kicking GW right square iin the go-nads

I had thought of doing that and then realised the futility of it. Take Gamesday for example. When I first went (pre LOTR) there were 8000 people there. I personally think its now more like 9000. See my point?
You dont change GW by boycotting them because they dont care, they'll get someone else to play. If anything you buy many many many shares in GW and then make them do things.


Nick Klose - 40K *HAD* better fluff. Now its a mess and I blame two people, and plan to rant at one of them yet again at the next games day (and woe betide him should he ever get involved with fantasy,,,).

im sorry but GW fluff prob wont be around as long as HEINLIENS NOVEL!!!!!!!!!!! its like comparing david (GW fluff) to a one-hundred-and-fiftyfoot mecha rosie o'donel (SST [the book])....... not to squash you opinion

D&D has been around for yonks. GW produced floors plans for the game at one point (I have some). My basic point is that GW will die once D&D kicks the bucket. And I doubt that will happen for a very long time. Sure the book will stay alive and as vibrant, but thats now impart due to things such as the movie and other media. Without it, it'd be just another good book sat on the shelf.

Just BEING in space requires serious discipline for any mammel to survive - NO WAY the orks, according to their fluff, could survive in space

According to the fluff, Orks capture hulks. By the Imperiums standards, we now are little more then primatives. If man can land on the moon, Orks can land on a hulk. Plus Ork knowledge is passed down through the Genes, so a Mek would one day work out how to build a space ship Its only when you get to kill kroozers and the like that it gets dodgy, but thats andy chambers' baby so who knows. If you mean Orks surviving hard vaccum then Ive never seen that in the fluff.

Now Heinlein's future is a lot more sensible, based upon our perspective. It is just a more realistic vision of the future, sorta like Star Trek or B5.

What I was going to put sounded very patronising. I appologise.
Whens Star Trek set? What, 25th century? Near enough. Tell you what lets go crazy and call it the third millenium. I now point towards the title of the science fiction game produced by Games Workshop. Notibly the bit that reads '40000'. Beleivable? Its a possibility. Mankind now has learn to make clone sheep, organs and the like cant be far off.
I also point towards the peice of fluff where the tech preist gives the ritual whacking to the computer when it doesnt work. Because we all dont do that now do we...



The sad thing about Starship Troopers is that a few months back I though it had the potential to be bigger then 40k by a long shot. Sure it'll be popular, but I wouldnt hold my breath. That and that fact that the biggest gaming store in England have serious doubts over mongoose products.

 

[ianvancheese]

firstly,i apologise to whoever i told to sod off!
secondly, i was feeling a bit anti-GW then cause of price rises and the re-release of all my armies codex's and my opinions may have been a little baised (cough cough)
Finally, i know SST will not demolish 40k in weeks but i do think it has great long-term potentail and could become as big in time if mongoose goes about it the right way.

 

[byram]

Uh dude, you quoted me and "replied" to Lord Bob.

Also, the fact that you accuse me of thinking like you... I may never post again. :lol:

oops my bad, i didnt see a difference in name :wink:

 

[dyssnowman]

im sorry but GW fluff prob wont be around as long as HEINLIENS NOVEL!!!!!!!!!!! its like comparing david (GW fluff) to a one-hundred-and-fiftyfoot mecha rosie o'donel (SST [the book])....... not to squash you opinion :wink:

What is it with you and Rosie O'Donel, byram? This is at least the second time that you have mentioned her on these forums. Is there something about you two that we should know? :mrgreen:

 

[dyssnowman]

Better fluff, (quote)

personally i think 40k has better fluff

would you like to define what you mean by 'better', before I voice a contrary opinion? I don't want to quash your thoughts...but I have thought a lot about the 40K fluff, and wouldn't mind hearing someone else's opinions. But the fluff is part of my reason for giving up on 40K.

Please, speak!

ok, personally i think ( i mean my own personal opnion i'm not trying to start a argument hear) war hammer 40k has a better fluff because it's darker. i like the religious nonsense of the imperium, the tale of the god emporer and his great crusades. the horus herasy, then the age of imperium. the 40k fluff has a wonderful gothic feal to it. The only real problem with 40k fluff (and i think its a HUGE problem) is that you have to do reaserch. you have to read those second and first edition books. you need white dwarfs 99through 200. you need to waste time reding novels, books and codexs. the new codex's offer crap in the way of fluff. if you read the old books and doe a little reserch the 40k fluuf becomes very good. the problem is that the old fluff is hard to impossible to find nowadays, so you left with crap codexes that don't even give one tenth of the story. The advantage that sst has in the fluff department is that you only have to read one novel and thats it. from that one novel you can get the basic back ground information and go from their. any way thats what i think.

Just how big a quote can we get here?!?!? I just wanted to let you know, nick, that the fluff for SST is not just from the book. They pull from all of the sources and throw in their own spin as well. Wait until the rulebook is in front of you before you decide.

 

[dyssnowman]

What 40k did was take GW's fantasy knock off of Lord of the Rings and add some starship troopers to the mix.

A better summary I have not seen!