Fond Memories... mayhaps not....

[adgramaine]

As I am tripping down Memory Lane, I found myself reflecting through some of my old adventures within the World of Lone Wolf. I find myself thinking back, trying to recall what perhaps might be the most memorable scene from the GS books....

Ahem.... to quote from Grey Star the Wizard:
..."'I'm bleeding,' you say to the Shadakine guard. 'I need a Healer. This quarrel must be removed and the wound dressed.'
...before you can stop him, he has torn the bolt from your shoulder, complete with the barbed head. You feel that you must faint with pain.'"

Why does this image stick in my mind, all these years after first reading the books? Why can't I first recall the first meeting of Grey Star and Tanith? Why can't I first recall the great feast within the Forbidden City, where the derranged king offers Grey Star an arm or a leg... literally! Why can't I first recall the climatic battle between GS and Shasarak?

BUT NO, my trussed up warped little mind has to have flashbacks on how much of a WUSS GS was in the beginning of the story!!!!

LW would so kick his ever-lovin' butt, even if GS had his Staff. But I still like the guy, wuss that he was

 

[redlaco]

Oh man, the memories...

But comparing the constitution of a warrior type (LW) and a mage type (GS) is somewhat unfair. Of course the latter is more a "wuss" than the former: it's a matter of training. Just wait a few years down the road, the spell slinger will probably wipe the floor with any warrior, provided he survived the "wuss period"... :wink:

Also, I'm sure if any of us were shot in the shoulder with a barbed Shadakine bolt, we would suddenly feel and act like wuss ourselves. No matter how tough we like to think we are... :mrgreen:

 

[Rykion]

I know that if someone pulled a barbed bolt out of my shoulder, I'd probably faint. :shock: Blood loss and pain tend to do that to people. We just expect more from fantasy heroes.

 

[Anonymous]

Speaking on comparison's, who would win in a fight between grey star and lonewolf? I say it has to be greystar; not only was the staff really powerful, allowing him to finish off lw from a distance, but greystar's other powers are pretty strong as well. (a barrier of sorcery, some elemental aid, enchantment,etc etc.)

 

[adgramaine]

Speaking on comparison's, who would win in a fight between grey star and lonewolf? I say it has to be greystar; not only was the staff really powerful, allowing him to finish off lw from a distance, but greystar's other powers are pretty strong as well. (a barrier of sorcery, some elemental aid, enchantment,etc etc.)

two words - the sommerswerd. any malevolent magics cast at him will be absorbed or deflected. and for distance combat, well can I say "silver bow of duadon"?

I know that if someone pulled a barbed bolt out of my shoulder, I'd probably faint. Blood loss and pain tend to do that to people. We just expect more from fantasy heroes.

Having been shot and stabbed before, I think I can relate to this, and I must admit, both injuries did nothing but tick me off and make me want to inflict similiar injuries upon said perpertrators. Besides, it's more the fact of one of those imprewsionistic images of your favorite hero from a younger age... and well, he left me with that single image during the course of Book One. Like I said though, I still love the charcater. It makes him all the more human. But it does not change the fact that when he started out he was a WUSS. But, he was a wuss that heavily influenced my RPing for many years to come, so I call him a wuss with the utmost respect and affections that can be afforded to a fictional character.

There, enough rambling.

 

[Paido]

[...] two words - the sommerswerd. any malevolent magics cast at him will be absorbed or deflected [...]

That may be true as long as Grey Star uses Sorcery or unleashes the Wizard's Staff energy from afar. But Enchantment attacks your mind, and a summoned Elemental would a creature - both are not absorbed by the Sommerswerd.

The largest problem however would be the following: Grey Star and Lone Wolf are locked in close combat, Wizard's Staff versus Sommerswerd. First round: Grey Star looses 12 Endurance points and nearly faints :wink:. Lone Wolf takes a mere 2 Endurance points. Then Grey Star invests 25 Willpower points to increase that amount of damage ... :twisted:

But it does not change the fact that when he started out he was a WUSS.

Ah, compared to Guybrush Threepwood, mighty pirate, both are. After all, "only sissies use maps"! :wink:


BTW, an encounter between Grey Star and Lone Wolf would have a completely different outcome than any of you seem to assume: Both would take one look at each other, go to a tavern, share a drink and companionably vent their frustration over all those stressful players ...


Paido

 

[Talisman]

:lol:

Mind defences of lone wolf are more powerful, he is virtually invulnerable to mind control

 

[Paido]

Shall I really? ... Ah, just for the sake of argument. :wink: Here goes:

[Lone Wolf] is virtually invulnerable to mind control

Now that depends on which level of Kai training he has achieved at that time, doesn't it? Up to at least The Cauldron of Fear, even Maghana, a mere guildmaster of thieves (!), was able to penetrate his mental defences with a mind-gem. And Grey Star does get access to one of those rather early. (Mind-gems, of course, though if Hugi gets a career boost ... :wink And then there's that Greater Magick variant of Enchantment as well! :twisted:


Paido, not exactly serious about that topic

 

[Anonymous]

Good comments Paido. Not to mention that grey star's magiks are not exactly spells at all.

And btw, using the sommerswrd would be kind of...cheating, no? The wizards staff is the only weapon gs can use; LW only comes across the ss by accident (i.e. no one else there to use it, since they are all dead).

Xex not very serious about this topic as well. :shock:

 

[Reginald de Curry]

It's plainly obvious that in a combat between Lone Wolf and Grey Star, Lone Wolf would win. For example:

Grey Star: "You can't defeat me, Kai Lord, my magicks are far too powerful!"

Lone Wolf: "Oh yeah?" *drops the Sommerswerd on the ground* "How about now?"

Grey Star: "Ah, shoot. Er, look behind you!" *runs away*

 

[Paido]

Confound it, I just cannot resist! Too much Chai-cheer, I suppose ...

Lone Wolf: "Oh yeah?" *drops the Sommerswerd on the ground* "How about now?"

Grey Star would have to fumble and loose the Moonstone, of course, taking away his Greater Magicks.

Then he'd proceed to blast poor, Sommerswerd-less Lone Wolf with his Wizard's Staff ... :shock:


Nah, I still firmly believe in my theory farther above. Chai-cheer, anyone?


Paido

 

[Anonymous]

That too depends on his level I suppose. If they are, by the rpg's standsards, above level 10, then grey star will have access to his greater magiks anyway.

 

[Nyxator]

Nope, Greater magicks is available only if a Shanti mage has the Moonstone.

 

[Anonymous]

I don't think so, (although I could be wrong). Grey star was still not near to the peak of his powers in war of the wizards; he was still comparable to Lone wolf with basic kai skills ( lesser magiks.) In the rpg terms, below 10th level, (thats when the kai still only has basic abilitites.)

The moonstone only caused his powers to surge, similar to the way magri's mind gem casued grey star's enchantment elder art to become more powerful.

Otherwise, you could argue that a kai cannot access magnakai skills without using a lorestone, or absorbing it. Needless to say, that is not true; it simply is a way to bypass training, or experiance to level up faster in rpg terms.

 

[Nyxator]

I understand your point of view, but I was just reporting what is said in WoLW book 4. I
can't quote the exact words, because I have the italian edition of the gamebooks, but if someone
would be so kind to check the original text, I'd be grateful. It should be in the "Magical Powers" paragraph.

Nyxator

 

[adgramaine]

I understand your point of view, but I was just reporting what is said in WoLW book 4. I can't quote the exact words, because I have the italian edition of the gamebooks, but if someone would be so kind to check the original text, I'd be grateful. It should be in the "Magical Powers" paragraph.
Nyxator

Just so it is know, GS book 4, under Magical Powers does say specifically that "possession of the Moonstone revels... the secret of the magical powers known as higher magics, of which there are six".

Furthermore, certain higher magics are simply not possible without the Moonstone itself. Visionary, specifically, mentions using the Moonstone to facilitate the power. Thegury also states that "the Moonstone acts as a charm for these potions". Certain aspects of Necromancy cannot be weilded without the Moonstone as well (the protective aura ability).

Done, and done

 

[Arandur]

Otherwise, you could argue that a kai cannot access magnakai skills without using a lorestone, or absorbing it. Needless to say, that is not true; it simply is a way to bypass training, or experiance to level up faster in rpg terms.

Lone Wolf learns the Magnakai abilities long before the Lorestones are found, he learns the first three Magnakai abilites in Book 6 (Kingdoms of Terror) before he has even set out to find the Lorestone of Varetta so they are definitely not needed at all...but the Greystar powers specifically states the Moonstone is required for some Higher (Greater) Magicks.

But if you want to talk about the power level of the characters take them both with or without their (unique) items and Powers. and when either character is taken in their tales.

Taken with their unique items (and the Sommerswerd is definitely Lone Wolf's unique Item, you can't finish the one of the books without getting the damn thing) then there is little doubt that he would win hands down, the damn sword negates magic and adds +8 t his combat skill! And this also more than likely negates the magic of a Wizard's Staff also cosidering it did negates the sorcerous bolts from the wands used by Cener Druids in Book 13 (Plague Lords of Ruel).

Taken without items and at the beginning of both their tales then it would most definitely have to Greystar at the advantage, I mean Sorcery and Elementalism both give him a great advantage over LW.

But taking them both at the end of their tales and without items, then LW would once again be more likely to win. I mean the guy has all the Kai disciplines and then also Alchemy from the Brotherhood of the Crystal Star and Magi Spells from the Dessi Elders. Not to mention the guy is night impervious to any psychic attacks, seems to be able to dodge most socerous blasts thanks to his Grand Huntmanship, can more than likely even 'read' it coming using Telegonisis (sp?) and then can also kill with a single unarmed stike as seen in many of the novels.

Still would be something to definitely see. *laughs*

I always wanted to see a dual gamebook (like Clash of the Princes or the Duelmaster series) that teamed up Lone Wolf and Greystar, I would have definitely like dto have seen that.


Arandur

 

[Paido]

Lone Wolf learns the Magnakai abilities long before the Lorestones are found, he learns the first three Magnakai abilites in Book 6 (Kingdoms of Terror) before he has even set out to find the Lorestone of Varetta so they are definitely not needed at all...

And don't you forget all those Kai Masters who have learned the Magnakai Disciplines from their teachers, without benefit of either a Lorestone or the Book of the Magnakai (source of Lone Wolf's first three Magnakai Disciplines, BTW) ...

But if you want to talk about the power level of the characters take them both with or without their (unique) items and Powers. and when either character is taken in their tales.

If someone really and seriously wants to compare those two, it would indeed have to be at similar power levels, i.e. after the same number of books. It's hardly fair to set a four-book wizard against a twenty-book Kai Grandmaster ...


About the different angles on such a duel: Good thoughts, Arandur. I have but one objection:

Taken with their unique items (and the Sommerswerd is definitely Lone Wolf's unique Item, you can't finish the one of the books without getting the damn thing) then there is little doubt that he would win hands down, the damn sword negates magic and adds +8 t his combat skill! And this also more than likely negates the magic of a Wizard's Staff also cosidering it did negates the sorcerous bolts from the wands used by Cener Druids in Book 13 (Plague Lords of Ruel).

I think you're halfway wrong about that: The Sommerswerd would not absorb the magical damage the Wizard's Staff deals in close combat, would it? There is no bolt of energy to absorb, the energy is released when the Staff touches the opponent. And when the Staff touches Lone Wolf, the Sommerswerd has not intercepted it. Else there would be no damage at all.

So if Grey Star damns all the future torpedos (just a stand-alone duel, not a whole gamebook still following), he could do at least 20-87 points of damage (depending on his willpower) in a single round, even if he only gets a result of 1-3 points of mundane damage by rolling low. (Which is highly likely, considering the difference in Combat Skill scores later on.) All it takes is enough luck to hit Lone Wolf once ... :twisted:


Paido

 

[Anonymous]

Thats is true, the moonstone _is_ required to acess the higher arts in war of the wizards. However, keep in mind that the series was cut short. It started out just like LW's series did(4 magiks); the author no doubt had a similar progression in mind just like lw's.

But with war of the wizards being the last book, a caveat had to be thrown in in order for fans to get a taste for the higher arts. And anyway, were the moonstone essential and the ONLY way to use the higher arts, the shainti themselves would have been powerless (with only the lesser arts) when they sent the moonstone into the dazirian plane.

If grey had had time to develop, IMO he could have used the higher arts without the moonstone. Including necroamncy, visionalry and theurgy. But then again I could be wrong. I wonder if there was any mention of this in devers notes, which august and the mongoose team had access to.

Gah!

 

[Anonymous]

LOL! Some things never change; I remember having this same argument with a buddy of mine back in High School, something like 16 years ago.

He took the pro GS side. I said LW would hand GS his bottom.

I say let's stage a duel with both characters at the same time if they had met up. The best times would either be:

1. Pre Book 1 in both cases, where they both don't have access to anything but their skills. GS doesn't have the Wizard's Staff, LW doesn't have the Sommerswerd. Let's take it on a straight skill set basis.

2. Post Book 2 in both cases. GS has his Wizard's Staff, LW has the Sommerswerd.

In my estimation, the best would be scenario 1. If you consider it, scenario 2 is really more of a contest between the two artifacts in question, not necessarily the skills of their owners.

Give both characters the same CS and END. Roll randomly for GS Willpower; since he doesn't have the staff in Scenario 1, I don't envision him using up all his Willpower in any case.