Fixed weapon mounts

[Myrm]

OK, quick question here. If no-one knows the MongTrav answer specifically but its been done one way for other versions then those answers would be of great use as well.

What skill and speciality is used to fire Fixed Mount weapons?
Is it a separate Gunner speciality thats not listed in the core book
Is it Gunner (Turrets) - because thats where you buy fixed mounts
Is it something you can manage at Gunner 0 at best because no speciality matches it?
Is it a Piloting skill check?
Any, none or all of the above?
Other?

Thanks
Tim

 

[far-trader]

Per CT Solomani (where it was introduced, and iirc limited to Solomani ships for what it's worth).

What skill and speciality is used to fire Fixed Mount weapons?

Pilot, at a -2 to hit.

Is it a separate Gunner speciality thats not listed in the core book

Nope, just the Pilot pointing the whole ship at the threat, hence the "fixed" mount. Presumes fixed forward fire but I allow stern chasers in MTU.

Is it Gunner (Turrets) - because thats where you buy fixed mounts

Not a turret at all, that would allow transit, though I allow in MTU that turrets may be locked into fixed fire mode. In fact I'm not even sure it should require a hardpoint (but think the rules do say it does). You were also limited to one fixed mount per computer number (implying what I'm not really sure) and that a fixed mount can only have 2 standard weapons instead of the usual 3 that a turret can have (and in MTU I allow a single fusion gun or plasma gun from HG instead of the usual 2 that a turret is allowed)

Is it something you can manage at Gunner 0 at best because no speciality matches it?

Nope, not Gunner at all.

Is it a Piloting skill check?

Correct. The Pilot, while flying, is trying to line up a target for the shot as well. In MTU I allow the negatives to hit can be traded off for positives to be hit. i.e. Instead of the Pilot trying to avoid fire while getting off a shot they opt to spend more time on going straight at the target and less time zigging.

Going on memory here for a quick answer, will check the CT book for correctness (may have slipped in some MTU interpretation subconsciously)

 

[Myrm]

Makes sense...cheers.

 

[far-trader]

You're welcome Tim. Just want to clarify that it's the old CT take on it. Mongoose may have a different leaning, and I haven't confirmed the actual CT rules yet, time to get some shut-eye, will check it tomorrow

 

[Gruffty the Hiver]

Fixed Weapons Mounts: Solomani ships may have fixed weapons mounts (as opposed to turret mounted weapons). Fixed weapons mounts allow up to two weapons to be attached per each hardpoint on the ship and do not require fire control tonnage or a turret. Weapons in fixed weapons mounts are operated by a gunner on the bridge and are subject to an attacker's DM - 2 in space combat. A ship is allowed fixed weapons mounts equal to the model number of the computer installed on the ship (Model/2 computer allows two hardpoints to have fixed weapons mounts).

...so you'd use MGT's Gunner skill, based on the canonical CT ruling above.

 

[simonh]

Making it a piloting roll is all very cinematic, but how does that work at ranges of thousands of kilometres? I know Star Wars has had an influence on Traveller but there are limits.

I'd say the Piloting rules approach would be fine for dogfighting at Close range, but at anything more than that we have to assume that weapons are capable of fine targeting adjustments beyond gross mechanical turret traversal and that these would be usable for fixed mount weapons as well. Lasers are focused and directed by a lens assembly, missiles at least have have basic target tracking abilities, etc.

Simon Hibbs

 

[Myrm]

Fixed Weapons Mounts: Solomani ships may have fixed weapons mounts (as opposed to turret mounted weapons). Fixed weapons mounts allow up to two weapons to be attached per each hardpoint on the ship and do not require fire control tonnage or a turret. Weapons in fixed weapons mounts are operated by a gunner on the bridge and are subject to an attacker's DM - 2 in space combat. A ship is allowed fixed weapons mounts equal to the model number of the computer installed on the ship (Model/2 computer allows two hardpoints to have fixed weapons mounts).

...so you'd use MGT's Gunner skill, based on the canonical CT ruling above.

...and then we come back to which speciality? Would it be a bay weapon equating to a fixed mount moving with the ship (or are bays simply arrays of turrets potentially), or a turret as a lighter weapon because fixed mounts are treated under turrets, or perhaps a speciality of its own.

One of the reasons I asked is because I have seen pilot or gunner being used as the relevant stat in a variety RPGs and arguments either way come out even.

 

[Gruffty the Hiver]

Turret speciality. Definitely.

 

[far-trader]

Thanks for snagging the quote Gruffty

Seems I did have MTU rules on the brain last night with the pilot bit instead of a gunner. I think because I never understood the bit about a gunner on the bridge firing a fixed weapon. But then I never really understood much of the idea

And I agree the idea of the Pilot shooting at those ranges is cinematic, but so what, so is a Gunner firing a turret at those ranges when you come down to it.

A thought does at least occur as to the computer limitation, after all these years. I suppose it's been obvious to others that lacking the 1 ton of fire control the computer is pulling that extra duty which accounts for the -2 to hit. I'll even go so far as to accept that a "fixed" mount isn't a fixed (no traverse) mount at all but a turret in almost every way. So the Gunner fires it normally (and it's only the computer that imposes a negative) and the "fixed" designation is in reference to the limited weapons in the turret.

 

[-Daniel-]

Ok, I admit I need some help here. How is a Fixed Mount weapon different from a Spinal Mounted Weapon? If the old Spinal Mounted weapons were fired by gunners using gunner skills why would a fixed mounted weapon be different?

Daniel

 

[Supergamera]

Along this same area, can small craft mount turrets?

 

[SSWarlock]

What skill and speciality is used to fire Fixed Mount weapons?

I've always used turret-based gunnery skill with the max applicable skill limited by the Pilot skill of the person at the helm. Spinal guns require the appropriate gunnery skill but are also limited by Pilot skill.

As for mounting turrets on small craft, I'd say no. The Core Book states "A ship has one hardpoint per 100 tons of ship." So any vessel under 100 dtons doesn't have any hardpoints.

 

[SSWarlock]

Naturally, when I post my answer above saying no turrets on small craft, Mongoose posts corrected deckplans showing a 10 ton fighter with a turret.

:lol:

 

[simonh]

And I agree the idea of the Pilot shooting at those ranges is cinematic, but so what, so is a Gunner firing a turret at those ranges when you come down to it.

If you assume gunners are literaly manualy aiming the weapon by eye like Luke and Han on the Millenium Falcon in Star Wars then yes, but clearly that's not how gunenry works. It'll be more like gunnery on modern warships. Similarly I imagine firing fixed weapons on a small craft will be a highly automated process, more akin to launching standoff missiles and laser-guided bombs from a modern strike fighter than WW2 dogfighting - and therefore work for the gunnery skill, not the piloting skill.

Simon Hibbs

 

[Talon Brightmane]

As for mounting turrets on small craft, I'd say no. The Core Book states "A ship has one hardpoint per 100 tons of ship." So any vessel under 100 dtons doesn't have any hardpoints.

Technically, you need a hardpoint to mount a weapon. A hardpoint is a part of a vehicle's hull designed to carry an external mount, be it a drop tank, missile system, or a gun pod.

As far as turrets go, WWII bombers were equipped with both manned and remote operated turrets and even modern attack helicopters have mini-turrets mounted in the nose and tied to the pilot's HUD.

By the way, in aircaft terms, a barbette was either a turret with a restricted arc of fire (such as a tail gunner on a WWII bomber) or a remote operated turret. When dealing with field artillery, it applied to heavily armored field guns.

 

[simonh]

As far as turrets go, WWII bombers were equipped with both manned and remote operated turrets and even modern attack helicopters have mini-turrets mounted in the nose and tied to the pilot's HUD.

For the purposes of the Traveller starship construction rules, for 'turret' read 'turret capable of mounting the ship-to-ship weapon systems described in these rules'.

A WW2 bomber turret would not be able to mount a Traveller anti-starship beam laser, even if the bomber had sufficient power to operate it.

As a matter of fact the MegaTraveller rules technically allowed for the mounting of anti-personnel weaponry in vehicle-scale turrets on starships but these would be useless in starship combat.

Simon Hibbs

 

[Talon Brightmane]

I would agree in the case of most small craft, especially the 10 dton fighter. It get a little more questionable with the 95 dton shuttle. However, setting a hard limit at 100 dtons for game mechanics works.

I would like to see a future supplement deal with anti-armor turrets (hopefully Mercenary). I could see a ship's boat armed with a FGMP turret for an anti-vehicle/anti-personel combat role. It would be useless in space combat, but would make a heck of a dropship.

 

[Myrm]

Would it really be useless. The damage conversion is 50:1 for starship to personal scale. A FGMP is a 16d6 weapon on personal scale - thats 56 points on average. Sounds like a one point damage weapon to me. Or for a bit of variability D3-1 starship for 16-96 personal damage.

OK thats not going to worry a big armoured starship much, but a smaller ship or a lighter ship is less of an issue.

 

[simonh]

A FGMP is a 16d6 weapon on personal scale - thats 56 points on average. Sounds like a one point damage weapon to me. Or for a bit of variability D3-1 starship for 16-96 personal damage.

And if your starship is a couple of hundred meteres away and not manoeuvering significantly (which admittedly is a conceivable situation in an adventure), then OK. At normal starship combat ranges in space? Not so much.

Simon Hibbs

 

[Myrm]

Oh agreed its not going to have a lot of use, but to say useless I think isnt entirely fair - Id have no problem if this was only useable in limited circumstance (Close range or less - Id possibly let it go that far due to vacuum not limiting the gun and the better power systems - aiming is a computer issue for any space weapon), boardign actions it should be useable.

By making it a 1pt fixed damage weapon, you could simply eliminate its use on most targets and keep its use for the appropriate area