Fire the Lightning Cannon!!!

[Enf0rcer]

Hello everybody, I have a rules question regarding the Victories lightning cannon. Now before you roll your eyes keep reading...

I clearly understand the section saying that you can not do anything at all. When the cannon is fired the ship drifts for a turn and gets shot at by half the enemy fleet. My question is, do it's intercepters and anti-fighter continue to function?

We came accross this question in a game last week, I was not firing interceptors due to ship being offline (and critted into uselessnes at less then half damage, lightning cannon was my only gun). My opponent then posed the question of wheither or not the adaptive armour continued to function, I replied yes as the armour did not require me to do anything and it made sense fluf wise as the interceptor was a gun that had to fire but the armour was just there. However they are both abilities that the ship has and rules wise it makes sense that if one does not work then the other should not either. Perhaps I should rephrase the question as, What happens to the abilities listed under special rules?

Hopefully that was not too long, thanks in advance for the help.

 

[daishi]

We have always played interceptors & adaptive armour continue to work so I guess we would also allow anti fighter. we have only stopped guns & engines from running/working.

Dont know if this is correct or not though

 

[Locutus9956]

Sorry Daishi but you've been getting this wrong. ANY active system is non functional after firing including interceptors and antifighter. It really does mean what it says on the the tin NOTHING. Adaptive armour however DOES continue to work since this is basically a built in trait of the hull. But no AF, no Interceptors and no launching fighters (and of course no firing and no movement or special orders).

The thing on interceptors was at least in one version (not sure if it still is in 2nd ed, and my books are at home) spelled out specifically stating that they cannot be used.

 

[Burger]

Locutus is mostly correct, however there is a "bug" in the rules, that interceptors and AF can still be used for the remainder of the current turn, after the LC fires.

 

[Locutus9956]

True enough, its only in the 'following turn' that the ship is totally shut down it just cant fire anything else the same turn it fires the LC. But I personally dont think its a 'bug' just a quirk of how it works really I suppose the ship is diverting all weapons power to the LC when it fires but isnt actually totally dead in space till next turn.

 

[Burger]

In the series the lights go out as soon as it fires.
Damage to the target ship is done immediately, therefore the powe should go down immediately.

 

[Locutus9956]

As soon as it STARTS firing or as soon as the cannon shuts down though? I've not watched crusade for ages. If its as soon as it starts firing I'd say that it SHOULD be fully shut down for the rest of the turn if its as soon as it ceaces fire I'd argue that the rules are fine as is.

 

[Burger]

If it's when the LC ceases firing then it should still shut down immediately. That would translate in game terms to when the last hit is dealt to the target. Since all hits are dealt at once and all damage is marked off the target immediately, the power should go down immediately IMO.

 

[Locutus9956]

I can see where your coming from but my personal view is that though fire is resolved sequentially I still tend to think of most of one turns firing being a very small space of time and having the victory effectively finish its 'cooldown' for the remainder of the turn somehow seems about righ to me.

In either case thats how the rules stand at the moment, your fully shut down next turn but can still use active defenses for the remainder of the firning turn, you just cant fire any other weapons)

 

[H]

If it's when the LC ceases firing then it should still shut down immediately. That would translate in game terms to when the last hit is dealt to the target. Since all hits are dealt at once and all damage is marked off the target immediately, the power should go down immediately IMO.

i tend to agree in principle, however changing the rules on this is probably pointless. If people will argue letting Shadow fighter shields work v af is too much to change in the rules, adding a line saying interceptors stop working the second you fire this big cahuna gun, is also too much. We may as well just accept and keep the rules as currently broken as some may perceive them to be, and hope for more in future.

 

[Burger]

If it's when the LC ceases firing then it should still shut down immediately. That would translate in game terms to when the last hit is dealt to the target. Since all hits are dealt at once and all damage is marked off the target immediately, the power should go down immediately IMO.

i tend to agree in principle, however changing the rules on this is probably pointless. If people will argue letting Shadow fighter shields work v af is too much to change in the rules, adding a line saying interceptors stop working the second you fire this big cahuna gun, is also too much. We may as well just accept and keep the rules as currently broken as some may perceive them to be, and hope for more in future.

Well I pointed it out in tier 2 playtesting, all it needed was a change in the wording rather than adding lines. But, ho-hum.

 

[H]

same with numerous issues matey
at least the marathon got some missiles! I feel justified that I did some good... ok I think Katadder argued more for them than me, but i'm taking some credit ;-)

 

[Taran]

The lights go out as soon as they push the button.
All power is redirected toward the Lightning Cannon immediately.

 

[Frohike]

Nearly used a 'but in real life' opener there before I remembered what was being discussed....

The game is trying to simulate simultaneous action across the whole board, in that sense it is a quirk of the game or any war game for that matter.

 

[Sulfurdown]

Why is AA not considered for the shutdown but it is a trait that can be lost? Wouldn't it either be an active function or not?

 

[David Anla Shok']

Ship description is pretty clear... you can't do nada. So, no shooting of any sort, manuever, etc. Adaptive armor is what it is. I've seen nothing to indicate that draws from the ships power supply in any way.

 

[nekomata fuyu]

The rules don't go into the specifics of where various traits draw any power requirement from though, and Adaptive Armour I would say is an active defence (the armour actively adapts in order to minimise the effects of the shot). Hell, seeing as there are no distinctions for active or passive traits in the rules anyway, really the only question we should be worrying about is "Do traits shut down after firing the Lightning Cannon?"

 

[Taran]

Armour is, by definition, a passive defense.
Dodge would be an active defense.

Even that disc shield thing from Macross/Robotech was a passive defense...

 

[David Anla Shok']

The rules don't go into the specifics of where various traits draw any power requirement from though, and Adaptive Armour I would say is an active defence (the armour actively adapts in order to minimise the effects of the shot). Hell, seeing as there are no distinctions for active or passive traits in the rules anyway, really the only question we should be worrying about is "Do traits shut down after firing the Lightning Cannon?"

I believe that adaptive armor has been described as semi organic, generating its own energy needs. I don't believe that you can use traits as an inclusive or exclusive filter for this question. The KISS rule should always be in effect. Anti fighter is a shooty thing and thus not allowed after firing the Lightening Cannon.

 

[nekomata fuyu]

You're still falling back on the idea that ultimately, players should make it up as they go along, which is great until you get two players both of which have different but equally valid ideas as to how a given trait could work. Sure, some situations can be resolved if you have a walking B5 encyclopedia in the games club, but the game should be relying on encyclopedic knowledge of the B5 universe in the first place.
After all, it should be KISS...