Experimental Hyperdrive Liner

[AnotherDilbert]

Experimental Hyperdrive Liner

Since it travels between systems in hours it is built like a airliner with minimal seating for the passengers and no staterooms.

400 dT, 144 hull, MCr 2000.
Hyper-1, M-1.
Minimal seating for 1000 passengers.

TL 15(17)          HullP 144                        1981,576  
                         Desired  Rat  #   dTonn    Cost   Power  
Hull                                         400              80
Config  Standard             1     1                  15  
Hull strength  Light         1     1        
              
HyperDrive  Early Prototype  1     1   1      80    1760     128
ManœuvreD  HiTech:3*EneEff   2     2   1       8      24      20
PowerP  TL12:1*Size                    1      14      16     236
    Emergency Power          1         1       1       2          
Fuel, Power                  8     8   1       3    

Bridge                       1         1      20       2  
    Holographic              1         1               1  
Comp         CORE/50        10    50   1              60  
Backup Comp  CORE/40         9    40   1              45  
              
Sensors  Advanced            9     4   1       5       5       6    
Array  Distributed           9     3   1      10      11      
Signal Processing  Enhanced  9     2   1       2       8       2    
                
Acceleration Benches      1000  1000 250     250      25  
Cargo                                          8

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Economic cost estimate for Rhylanor - Mora route:

Assume a hyperdrive trip every day ~12 h, and 12 h maintenance. Two weeks every year + one full days maintenance every week since it's an early prototype. 295 trips per year.

Base cost: MCr 2000

Mortgage yearly: 2000 / 240 * 12 = MCr 100
Maintenance year: 2000 * 0,1% = MCr 2
Life Support year: 1050 * Cr 2000 * 12 = MCr 25
Salaries: ( 50 * 5000 ) * 12 * 300% = MCr 9 (assume 300% crew, since they need vacations, sick leave, ...)
Fuel, year: 0,4 dT per week * 52 weeks * Cr 500 = MCr 0,01

Yearly operating expense: MCr 100 + 2 + 25 + 9 + 0,01 = MCr 136
We have transported 295 * 1000 = 295000 passengers for an average cost of Cr 460 per passenger.
If we triple that cost to cover berthing, vacancies, and a healthy profit margin we can sell the tickets for Cr 1500.

So for Cr 1500 we can transport a passenger from Rhylanor to Mora (11 parsec) in 12 h.
With the "Jump Train" concept we could transport a passenger that route for CR 60000 in 15 days.

I have a feeling Hyperdrive liners will be popular...

 

[phavoc]

If you are going to be running between systems like an airliner, you'll need to have some more comfortable seating for those that are going to pay for it, a business class and a first class. I posted a link in the main Traveller section outlining A380 seating, as well as it's onboard apartment-type compartment you can purchase a ticket for.

A 12hr journey is more akin to rail traffic, I think, than air. We do have flights of that length today though, so it's within the realm of the reasonable. Have you thought about putting together one that mimics rails rather than air?

 

[AnotherDilbert]

I used acceleration benches, since that is the most compact way to squeeze in people in the rules. At 1/4 dT ≈ 3.5 m3 per passenger I think that is still quite a lot more space than a modern airliner.

12 h flights are not uncommon, Europe to Thailand, the Caribbean, or Los Angeles are in that region. Well in range for mass tourism...

 

[phavoc]

I used acceleration benches, since that is the most compact way to squeeze in people in the rules. At 1/4 dT ≈ 3.5 m3 per passenger I think that is still quite a lot more space than a modern airliner.

12 h flights are not uncommon, Europe to Thailand, the Caribbean, or Los Angeles are in that region. Well in range for mass tourism...

Yes, if you look at airliners today you can squeeze in a few more people per Dton than what the rules imply. Now those are pretty cramped economy seats... and some airlines like Etihad have larger economy seats for their long hauls than say a coast-to-coast 767 widebody United Airlines might. I don't have my notes in front of me, but I believe within a standard 2Dton, you can seat 3 x 4 x 3 with two aisles - in economy class. Business or first class is 2 x 2 x 2 for the same footprint.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

The long-haul version with staterooms.

400 dT, 144 hull, MCr 2000.
Hyper-1, M-1.
34 high passengers.

TL 15(17)          HullP 144                        1991  
                         Desired  Rat  #   dTonn    Cost   Power  
Hull                                         400              80
Config  Standard             1     1                  15  
Hull strength  Light         1     1        
              
HyperDrive  Early Prototype  1     1   1      80    1760     128
ManœuvreD  HiTech:3*EneEff   2     2   1       8      24      20
PowerP  TL12:1*Size                    1      14      16     240
    Emergency Power          1         1       1       2          
Fuel, Power                  8     8   1       3    

Bridge                       1         1      20       2  
    Holographic              1         1               1  
Comp         CORE/50        10    50   1              60  
Backup Comp  CORE/40         9    40   1              45  
              
Sensors  Advanced            9     4   1       5       5       6    
Array  Distributed           9     3   1      10      11      
Signal Processing  Enhanced  9     2   1       2       8       2    
                
Staterooms                100%    51  51     204      26  
Library                      1         1       4       4  
Medical Bay  10% of crew     1         1       4       2  
Workshop                     1         1       6       1  
Low Berths                   4     4   1       2       0       4
Cargo                                         36    
              
              
              
Crew               17  
  Command           1  
  Bridge            3  
      Pilot               1
      Astrogator          1
      Sensor & EW         1
  Engineer          8            Double, since prototype
      Engineer            3
      Maintenance         0,4
  Service           5  
      Admin               0,2
      Medic               0,405
      Steward             3,4
  Gunner    
  Flight    
  Troops                  
  
Passengers    
  High             34

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Economic cost estimate for Mora - Capital/Core route:

Assume the hyperdrive trip takes about 1 week (180 parsec). One weeks maintenance every trip + two weeks overhaul every year. 24 trips per year.

Base cost: MCr 2000

Mortgage yearly: 2000 / 240 * 12 = MCr 100
Maintenance year: 2000 * 0,1% = MCr 2
Life Support year: 51 * Cr 2000 * 12 = MCr 1,25
Salaries: ( 17 * 5000 ) * 12 * 300% = MCr 3 (assume 300% crew, since they need vacations, sick leave, ...)
Fuel, year: 0,4 dT per week * 52 weeks * Cr 500 = MCr 0,01

Yearly operating expense: MCr 100 + 2 + 1,25 + 3 + 0,01 = MCr 106
We have transported 24 * 34 = 816 passengers for an average cost of kCr 130 per passenger.
If we triple that cost to cover berthing, vacancies, and a healthy profit margin we can sell the tickets for kCr 400.

So for kCr 400 we can transport a passenger from Mora/Spinward Marches to Capital/Core (~180 parsec) in a week.
Along an optimal X-Boat route (200 parsec) that would take us 50 jumps so a year or two and cost kCr 41 * 50 ≈ kCr 2000.

I have a feeling Hyperdrive liners will be popular...

 

[phavoc]

Here's the seating setting on a 777. It can slightly differ on different airlines, depending on their preferences and seating arrangements. It's not a straight doubling from 1Dton to 2Dton because you have to add in a 2nd aisle. A narrow-body like a 737 has a cabin width of about 3.5m. It seats 3 -aisle- 3. It's not perfect seating numbers below, but they are realistic to what is flying today.

From Boeing Website (777)
First Class – 3 per Dton (1-aisle-2)
6 per 2Dton (2-aisle-2-aisle-2

Business Class – 4 per Dton (2-aisle-2)
7 per 2Dton (2-aisle-3-aisle-2)

Economy – 5 per Dton (2-aisle-3)
9 per 2Dton (3-aisle-3-aisle-3)

 

[AnotherDilbert]

According to SeatGuru, a BA 777-300 has a seat pitch of 31" width 17.5" in cattle class in a 3 - 3 - 3 configuration. Assuming 2.5 m cabin height that gives a volume of about 0.9 m3 per seat, adding 50% for aisles and service areas, gives us 1.3 m3 per passenger or 10 passengers per dT. This is for long-haul routes such as to India.

 

[phavoc]

According to SeatGuru, a BA 777-300 has a seat pitch of 31" width 17.5" in cattle class in a 3 - 3 - 3 configuration. Assuming 2.5 m cabin height that gives a volume of about 0.9 m3 per seat, adding 50% for aisles and service areas, gives us 1.3 m3 per passenger or 10 passengers per dT. This is for long-haul routes such as to India.

Fortunately airlines haven't gotten to that level of packing sardines in! And so far they don't stack passengers, so total cubic size isn't applicable for seating arrangements.

A 747, at 6.5m wide in the cabin goes with a 3 x 4 x 3 seating arrangement, so I think the passenger capacities listed below are fair and reasonable. You'd be stacking people like cordwood to get 10 per Dton.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

I may have misunderstood something, but 10 per dT seems about standard....

In the example you give we have 10 seats abreast on 6.5 m. With a seat pitch of 31" = ~0.8 m and an assumed average cabin height of 2.5 m we get 6.5 * 0.8 * 2.5 = ~13 m3 about 1dT.

 

[phavoc]

I may have misunderstood something, but 10 per dT seems about standard....

In the example you give we have 10 seats abreast on 6.5 m. With a seat pitch of 31" = ~0.8 m and an assumed average cabin height of 2.5 m we get 6.5 * 0.8 * 2.5 = ~13 m3 about 1dT.

Well, in the example above, 6.5m is a little over 2 Dton on a deckplan (4 squares). We're really only looking at TWO dimensions here, not three. So cubic calculations aren't useful when considering seating. If you visualize this, we are looking at 3m wide, by 1.5m deep. And you still have an aisle between seats. Doing multiples of seating you can actually squeeze more into it, but from a plain seating calculation standpoint, it's somewhat easier to just go with putting one row per Dton. Going back to the example, it's easy enough to allot the 10 seats per TWO Dtons. I think otherwise it's far too cramped, even for people sitting in the back.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

A displacement ton is only definable as a volume.

If we count in squares, a square is 1.5 m wide, so 2 dT would be four squares in a row. With a seat pitch of ~30" ≈ 0.8 m we can get two rows of seats into one square of 1.5 m. Hence two dT would contain two seat rows = 20 seats, for about 10 people per dT.

First class with a seat pitch about 2 m and wider seats would have something like 3 seats per dT.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Fortunately airlines haven't gotten to that level of packing sardines in!

I once had this idea that passengers could be stacked in capsules (let's call them coffins), with everyone's feet pointing to the exterior of the plane, perhaps three capsules high. Basically, you would have to sleep the whole time (you could have a screen on the ceiling), and in the event of an emergency, all capsules are boosted out of the fuselage and deploy parachutes.

Probably a death trap, but the idea was there...

 

[phavoc]

Fortunately airlines haven't gotten to that level of packing sardines in!

I once had this idea that passengers could be stacked in capsules (let's call them coffins), with everyone's feet pointing to the exterior of the plane, perhaps three capsules high. Basically, you would have to sleep the whole time (you could have a screen on the ceiling), and in the event of an emergency, all capsules are boosted out of the fuselage and deploy parachutes.

Probably a death trap, but the idea was there...

Or an image from The Fifth Element. Not sure if you were imagining the ganja-smoking fuelers reloading radioactive fuel without protective gear or flaming space rats from the landing gear...