Demonology

[soltakss]

I had a few thoughts of demonology and demonologists in RQ.

Here are my thoughts so far. Obviously, I'd appreciate feedback on these.

Demonology in RuneQuest
Demonology is one of the areas of magic that hasn't really been covered in the past in RQ. There was an article in White Dwarf, Dealing With Demons, that covered demons in RQ2 and later on in RQ3. However, the approach wasn't the best for working with demons.

Mongoose's new version of RuneQuest (RQM) has some very nice structures that fit demonology very well, in my opinion, so RQm is possibly the best version of RQ suited to demonology.

What is Demonology?

First of all, what is demonology? Dictionary.com defines it as:

1. the study of demons or of beliefs about demons
2. belief in demons.
3. a group of persons or things regarded as evil or pernicious.

For the purposes of RQ, I am concentrating on definitions 1 and 2, so I define Demonology here as the study of demons, the study of the belief in demons or the actual belief in and worship of demons.

What is a demon? Dictionary.com again:
1. an evil spirit; devil or fiend.
2. an evil passion or influence.
3. a person considered extremely wicked, evil, or cruel.
4. a person with great energy, drive, etc.: He's a demon for work.
5. a person, esp. a child, who is very mischievous: His younger son is a real little demon.
6. Australian Slang. a policeman, esp. a detective.
7. of, pertaining to, characteristic of, or noting a demon.
8. possessed or controlled by a demon.
Daemon:
Classical Mythology.
1. a god.
2. a subordinate deity, as the genius of a place or a person's attendant spirit.
3. a demon.
Daimon:
1. An inferior deity, such as a deified hero.
2. An attendant spirit; a genius.


For the purposes of this article, I am using the term demon to mean an evil spirit, devil, fiend or malign supernatural entity or a minor demigod or attendant being.

What is Demonology in Game Terms?

Demonology is the study of demons or the study of the belief in demons. In RQ terms, there are several parts to this. Firstly, Demonologists learn the Lore (Demonology) Advanced Skill. Secondly, Demonologists learn spells to control demons. Finally, Demonologists have special Legendary Abilities that allow them to interact with demons.

Skills

Lore (Demonology) - This is an Advanced Skill covering the general study of, classification of and knowledge of demons of all types. Success in this skill identifies a demon and its properties. A critical identifies any secret powers of the demon or even tells the Demonologist the Demon's True Name.

Spells

Demonologists may learn spells to summon, command and dismiss demons.

Summon (Demon)Casting Time 10, Magnitude 4, Runes: Magic or Mastery (Runemagic)
Casting Time 10, Magnitude 4 (Sorcery)
This ritual allows the caster to summon a demon of the specified type. It is available as Runemagic and Sorcery, some Demonologists use Runemagic, others use Sorcery, but the effects are identical. Use the Summoning rules in Cults of Glorantha 2 to determine if a summoning is successful.

Command (Demon), Control (Demon) and Dominate (Demon) - these are the same as the standard spells, but only deal with Demons.

Dismiss (Demon)Casting Time 10, Magnitude 4, Runes: All
Casting Time 10, Magnitude 4 (Sorcery)
This ritual allows the caster to dismiss a demon of the specified type. He caster must overcome the demon's Persistence with his Lore (Demonology) in an opposed roll. Success means the demon is sent back to the infernal planes from whence they came. Failure means the demon remains, but the Demonologist may try to Dismiss it again, assuming he survives.

Dismiss (Demon)Instant, Ranged, Magnitude 2
The spell works in the same way as above.

Demonic Legendary Abilities

Minor Demonic Pact (Demon)Requirements: POW 15+, Lore (Demonology) 90%
Cost: 6 Hero Points
This establishes a link between the Demonologist and a particular demon, specified in the Minor Demonic Pact. The Demonologist Dedicates 1D6 POW to the Demon, the POW is lost in the same way that POW Dedicated to a Deity is lost. The Demonologist may learn any skills that the Demon can teach, or can increase such skills by his POW+INT. If the demon is associated with a spell, the Demonologist may learn the spell from the demon. However, there are costs associated with such a Pact. The Demonologist must follow any taboos or geases set by the demon and is forever associated with the demon. A Demonologist may have several Minor Demonic Pacts with several different types of demon, as long as the demons are not mutually incompatible.


Major Demonic Pact (Demon)Requirements: POW 15+, Lore (Demonology) 90%
Cost: 8 Hero Points
This establishes a link between the Demonologist and a particular demon, specified in the Major Demonic Pact. The Demonologist loses 1 POW permanently as the Demon tastes his soul, but does not dedicate POW to the Demon, instead at the instant of his death, the Demon will appear and claim his soul, dragging it to whatever portion of Hell it controls. This result may be opposed by whatever abilities the Demonologist has, but the Demonologist rarely succeeds in overcoming his demon. The Demonologist will be given Mastery (90%) in any skill controlled by the Demon and may learn any spells that the demon can grant. A Demonologist may not have more than one Major Demonic Pact.

Worshipper of (Demon)Requirements: Varies
Cost: 6 Hero Points
This allows the person to worship a demon. This worship is similar to worship of a deity, but most demons are not as powerful as deities and can only grant one or two spells. Generally, demons do not grant Common Divine Magic that are available to all deities. Such worship is minor and secretive and a worshipper may belong to another cult as well, in fact most worshippers of demons follow the important local cult. Worshippers of a demon may dedicate POW to the demon and gain divine spells, but can use their Lore (Demonology) to learn and cast the spell, or may learn runemagic or sorcery granted by the demon as if they were initiates of the cult.

Priest of (Demon)Requirements: Be a worshipper of the demon, others vary depending on the demon
Cost: 12 Hero Points
This allows the person to be a priest of a demonic cult and acts in all ways as a Runepriest would. A priest may dedicate POW to the demon using Lore (Demonology) to learn and cast spells, but may also lead worship of the demon and may call on the demon for aid. Demonic worship is by its very nature secretive and a Priest of a Demonic Cult does not advertise the fact, preferring to act in the shadows, slowly increasing the power and influence of the cult.

Demonologist

Many different types of people may have some powers over demons, but only the Demonologist is a specialist in dealing with demons.

The Demonologist profession is described in the RQ Spellbook, but this misses the boat in many ways. Demonologists are not always associated with Chaos, many demons are not chaotic, merely evil. Here is a slightly different version.

Demonologist:
Cultural Background: Civilised, Devout, Fated Soul, Noble, Townsman
Basic Skill Bonuses: Influence +10%, Persistence +5%, Resilience +5%, World Lore +10%
Advanced Skills: Lore (Demonology) + 10% Pick One (Lore, Lore (Theology), Runecasting, Survival)

Demons

There are many types of demons. Some are the remnants of older religions, almost forgotten but still contactable by powerful demonologists. Some are the servants of evil deities, able to be summoned to wreak havoc on the world. Others are powerful evil beings, trying to impose their will on the world and open the gates to hell.

Some Demonologists can summon angels as well as demons. In essence, angels are the opposite of demons, but angels in one religion are the demons of another.

Many demonologists are not worshippers of demons but instead worship the demon's enemy cults. These Demonologists study demons so they can dismiss them or recognise the signs of demonic cults. However, such demonologists can become seduced by the demons they study and can be turned into worshippers of demons.

The following demons are based on Judaeo-Christian-Islamic demons and perhaps are not suitable for all settings. In particular, the demons of the Eternal Champion series are different and use different rules. These demons would be suitable for an Alternate Earth campaign, perhaps in medieval Europe, or the Stupor Mundi supplement.

Rather than listing demons, here are a few links to various on-line lists of demons and their properties. It should be fairly easy to assign RQ skills/spells to these demons.

http://www.palmyria.co.uk/superstition/angelsdemons.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_demons
http://www.arcane-archive.org/faqs/demonref.php
http://www.pdxnet.net/resrev/Angels.html
http://www.deliriumsrealm.com/delirium/demonlistA-E.asp
http://www.heart7.net/spirit/top.html
http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/dvera/Demons/index.html

 

[Wolverine]

I have a feeling, and correct me if I'm wrong Loz, that rules on Demonology are covered in the RuneQuest Games Master's Handbook.

 

[RosenMcStern]

Looks fine. A suitable candidate for getting its own page on the Stupor Mundi web site.

Some notes:

1) Why not a Demon rune? To be honest, I would identify demons and chaos and just use the Chaos rune. All "generic" supplements published so far tend to identify chaos with evil, so your statement of "Not all Demons are chaotic, just evil." might be correct in an EC or Gloranthan context, but not in Alternate Earth.

2) Your dismiss spells look like a "reversed" version of the Summon spells, like the Call/Dismiss spells found in Call of Cthulhu. I think a Dismiss spell is not a ritual, instead, but just a way to focus your will against the Demon's in a last attempt to send him back to Hell. You face the entity, and you have just the time to present your Holy Cross and utter "Vade retro!" before becoming his morning snack.

According to these considerations, I propose the following changes:

Summon Demon (rune): Demon or Chaos, Mastery
Summon Demon (sorcery): no Magnitude required

Dismiss Demon (rune): Demon or Chaos, Casting Time 1, Magnitude 4, Ranged
Dismiss Demon (sorcery): Casting Time 1, Ranged
Dismiss Demon (divine): Casting Time 1, Magnitude 1, Ranged

I would avoid defining Worshipers or Priests of Demons, whereas I like your Pact legendary abilities. Just one last question: isn't 1d6 non-recoverable POW a bit too much for a minor demonic pact?

 

[Lord High Munchkin]

Dear All,

RosenMcStern wrote:

1) Why not a Demon rune? To be honest, I would identify demons and chaos and just use the Chaos rune. All "generic" supplements published so far tend to identify chaos with evil, so your statement of "Not all Demons are chaotic, just evil." might be correct in an EC or Gloranthan context, but not in Alternate Earth.

Not according to Medieval thought... demons are untrustworthy, devious and manipulative - but not chaotic. They after all were organised upon a perverted mirror image of the heavenly host, and thus were good followers of (infernal) orders.

Regards

 

[soltakss]

Looks fine. A suitable candidate for getting its own page on the Stupor Mundi web site.

If you'd like. That would be good.

1) Why not a Demon rune? To be honest, I would identify demons and chaos and just use the Chaos rune. All "generic" supplements published so far tend to identify chaos with evil, so your statement of "Not all Demons are chaotic, just evil." might be correct in an EC or Gloranthan context, but not in Alternate Earth.

As Lord High Munchkin says, medieval Christian demons were the opposites of the angelic hosts, so are evil rather than Chaotic. In D&D terms, they'd be Lawful Evil and Angels would be Lawful Good.

It all depends what your definition of chaos is in a setting. I'm not sure that Chaos in Stupor Mundi/Fantasy Europe would be suitable, at least not in the Gloranthan sense.

Certainly a Demon Rune would make sense and would make things easier, if you take spells as coming from runes (which I don't think works particularly well, runequest or not). But, you;d also need an Angel Rune or something similar.

2) Your dismiss spells look like a "reversed" version of the Summon spells, like the Call/Dismiss spells found in Call of Cthulhu. I think a Dismiss spell is not a ritual, instead, but just a way to focus your will against the Demon's in a last attempt to send him back to Hell. You face the entity, and you have just the time to present your Holy Cross and utter "Vade retro!" before becoming his morning snack.

Yes, the Dismiss is the opposite of a Summon, allowing a Demonologist to dismiss particular types of demons. I see monks, imams and rabbis also having knowledge of Demonology and having the abilty to dismiss demons.

Summon Demon (rune): Demon or Chaos, Mastery
Summon Demon (sorcery): no Magnitude required

Dismiss Demon (rune): Demon or Chaos, Casting Time 1, Magnitude 4, Ranged
Dismiss Demon (sorcery): Casting Time 1, Ranged
Dismiss Demon (divine): Casting Time 1, Magnitude 1, Ranged

You could even add Darkness, perhaps, as many demons are associated with Black Arts, or Darkness.

I would avoid defining Worshipers or Priests of Demons, whereas I like your Pact legendary abilities.

I know you don't like satanic or demonic cults, so that's reasonable. But, there were many hidden sects historically that worshipped demonic entities, so there should be a place for them.

Just one last question: isn't 1d6 non-recoverable POW a bit too much for a minor demonic pact?

Well, selling part of your soul to a demon isn't that minor!

The idea was for a Major Demonic Pact to have a low initial cost but a final cost of the loss of the soul but a Minor DFemonic Pact having a larger initial cost but no final cost. Maybe it should be Dedicated POW in the same way that worshippers dedicate to a deity.



As a matter of interest, would it be better to list some of the major demons and the abilities they can grant or to link to online resources and let individual GMs work them out themselves?

I've got personal reasons why I don't want to go into great detail into real world black magic (or magic of any kind), although simply listing some demons and the abilities they can grant shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Magistus]

Looks fine. A suitable candidate for getting its own page on the Stupor Mundi web site.

Or on the MRQ Wiki.

 

[soltakss]

Looks fine. A suitable candidate for getting its own page on the Stupor Mundi web site.

Or on the MRQ Wiki.

Or both ....

(Stupor Mundi with Medieval demons, MRQWiki with generic demons)

 

[Magistus]

True True. I will have what you posted up on the wiki soon.

 

[soltakss]

Can you hold off on that for a few days?

I want to put some changes in and rejig it a bit for the MRQWiki site.

So, this time it might be MRSlowy .....

 

[Magistus]

Will do

 

[Lord High Munchkin]

Dear All,

Soltakss wrote:

As a matter of interest, would it be better to list some of the major demons and the abilities they can grant or to link to online resources and let individual GMs work them out themselves?

Depends if you are aiming for 'Medieval' - most lists and such are late 16-17th century and later (a lot are 19th) - for example the 'Præstigiis Dæmonum' by Johann Weyer is from 1563.

If you are going for "historical accuracy," Medieval demons are not actually given specific areas or unique abilities it the period sources - it's more like "call up this demon, he's good for the job," or call up the specific demon that rules the specified time of day/night and they'll sort it out. Hours and days to perform the summoning are often given, what each spirit can do is not.

Books like 'The Munich Handbook' and 'Liber de Angelis' also make it clear that calling up angels does just as well (demons are just fallen angels after all). Results are often gained, powers given, or knowledge imparted (the most common benefit) by the use of incantations and recitations of the Divine's might. It's really by convincing (for angels), or threatening (for demons) that the summoner has the power to use the names and authority of God that cajoles the spirit into performing the desired action.

Regards

 

[sidkfjjteidlkkf]

Great JOB!!!! Simon.

I like it just the way it is. NOw, if we can only get stats for demons as physical creatures, we will have a set of complete demonology rules.

 

[RosenMcStern]

The stats for the Lords of Chaos in Legendary Heroes are a good example. They are puny creatures by Gloranthan standards, but a real nightmare in Alternate Earth.

 

[Loz]

The stats for the Lords of Chaos in Legendary Heroes are a good example. They are puny creatures by Gloranthan standards, but a real nightmare in Alternate Earth.

Demonology - not dissimilar to Simon's efforts (which are very good, BTW) is covered in the GMs Guide. There are stats for demons too, equating the the beings mentioned in Legendary Heroes.

 

[Lord High Munchkin]

Dear All,

Of course in a Medieval setting demonologists should be members of the clergy.

Either in minor orders (via the universities), or bitter twisted wannabe church politicians who have been turned down, or passed over, for promotion and who seek other avenues to power....

Regards

 

[soltakss]

I saw demonologists as being mainly church members who studied to keep control of demons or people outside the church who summoned/made pacts with demons for personal gain.

Jewish and Islamic demonologists have access to esoteric knowledge that Christians generally didn't have - the teachings of Solomon, for instance. There could also be a number of grimoires or apocryphal works that teach about demons or give access to spells.

I always saw demonologists as being very widely-read. So, in Stupor Mundi they would have read Jewish, Christian and Islamic works, which are fairly easy to get hold of due to the prevailing culture of the time. It might make them heretical or certainly suspect as far as the major religions go, though.

There shouldn't be any real distinction between the beenfits gained by summoning demons or angels. Neither really care about mortals, both can grant supernatural aid, skills, magic etc and both have terms, conditions and costs for their service.

Good to see demonology covered in the GM's Guide - I'd better put something on Mr Qwiki and Stupor Mundi first. I suppose a Stupor Mundi version should contain sketches of the medieval demons, so I'd better get cracking reading the online lists.

 

[Lord High Munchkin]

Dear All,

OK, this might get a little history heavy (and if I'm telling you how to suck eggs... I don't mean to).

The following also ignores the vast differences in culture and society during the Medieval period. If you imagine the changes from the 1940's till now, the differences between say 1340 and 1400 were just as great - it just doesn't seem as such to us, as it was so long ago - but it was to those who lived through those years.

Well, (and this is going to be a very gross simplification) historically before the great Lutheran Reformation, a person of any degree of learning was almost by definition a member of the Church (or at least had taken minor orders, so as to allow entry into a university, but might have gone no further in the hierarchy, and instead become something like a clerk or lawyer).

Normal church officials would have absolutely no need to control demons - the power of God's ordained order did that (kept them in their place). If a person confessed often and lead a virtuous life, then demons had absolutely no hold on one - a true believer was literally "demon-proof."

So, why would an educated man (and rarely some women), want to summon up the infernal powers in the form of a demon? Obviously for the purpose of doing no good, or bypassing the natural order of things.

As to being widely read, no one was widely read. Even universities "taught by the book" - meaning that they taught the books that they possessed, and few had many (hence chained libraries). If one wanted to be widely-read then one had a great deal of hard dangerous travelling to do.

Regarding real examples of grimoires (such as the 'Munich Handbook'), they seem to have been pretty rare (not surprising given the content could get one burned), and contain few actual "spells." Almost all of the material were summoning formulae to get a demon (or angel) to do something - mostly to fetch an item, create illusionary items (a long duration impenetrable illusion being just as good as the real thing), influence others, or most commonly by far, the divination of upcoming events (to get a jump on the "competition") and divining the locations of hidden items.

Magic (meaning here ‘Theurgy’ or ‘high magic’ - a more philosophic opposite to ‘Goetia’ or low magic) was always in the form of getting a spirit to do the work. Mages practically never "cast spells" themselves - why would they? It's much easier to get a powerful supernatural spirit to do it - leaving more time to plot revenge or evil schemes!!!.

I'm no expert on Jewish magic (I normally ask the two Kabbalist Rabbis I know), but I'm assuming the book problem still held. Islam seems to have been very anti-magic but ignored a lot of "folk" customs.

Hope that helps

Regards

 

[RosenMcStern]

There shouldn't be any real distinction between the beenfits gained by summoning demons or angels. Neither really care about mortals, both can grant supernatural aid, skills, magic etc and both have terms, conditions and costs for their service.

Here I disagree, especially about angels. Angels (archangels) are regarded as saints in both Stupor Mundi and Mythic Russia, and as such grant normal theist magic to worshipers: Feats in HeroQuest/Mythic Russia, and Divine Magic in Stupor Mundi. This is by no means a "bargain" but rather regurlar worship. I do not see any reason to treat lesser angels differently, nor to assume that they do grant magic to believers.

Angels and Demons in Islam are rather different, besides. Angels do not have a free volition, and just carry out God's instructions. If you have something to ask, you better ask Allah directly instead of wasting time with angels. Islamic demons (Shaitan) are not fallen angels, but corrupted Djinni. A Shaitan could easily work like you described in your demonology, but Islamic angels would not.

 

[Lord High Munchkin]

Dear All,

But remember that one of the most common formulaic openings to summonings was: "I conjure you, O Devil, by the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, and by the patriarchs and prophets, apostles, evangelists, martyrs, confessors, virgins, and all the holy men and holy women of God... and by our Lord Jesus Christ I conjure you..."

So going straight to the Devil (who would then pass down instructions) was pretty much the norm too. The idea of "bargaining" with demons is actually post-medieval (after Luther certainly); during the Middle Ages one would rather brow-beat them with Divine authority (as above) to get their co-operation.

As to Angels being regarded as Saints - that is an error (I forget the actual Church term for a misguided belief that isn't bad enough to be considered heretical). In any case it certainly wasn't the understanding in Western Medieval Europe. One doesn't worship angels either, they are merely minions of the Divine (and thus holy).

Demons are a perversion of the divine order, but operate in much the same way (after all, they can't create anything themselves, that is solely God's ability - hence demons can only create illusions of items desired by mages). They ape the structure of Heaven as it is all they know.

Regards

 

[Lord High Munchkin]

Dear All,

I should have mentioned that archangels are a somewhat half case - they are venerated (but not worshipped), in the same way as Saints are, as messengers and conduits for intercession.

Regards