Failing the Education roll for learning new skill

[Vidgar]

One of my players failed the education roll for his study period (8 weeks) and the others players said he had to start from scratch (weeks 1 of 8) again.

As a Technical trade teacher, I realized this is incorrect. He should have retain some information, so below is my idea for repeat study for a skill study.

1st Attempt: the period of study is normal length (8wks for Skill 0 & 1, 16wks for Skill 2, etc) vs 8 +EDU
2nd Attempt: the period of study is half as long (4wks for Skill 0 & 1, 8wks for Skill 2, etc) vs 8 +EDU -1 (penalty)
3rd Attempt: the period of study is again half as long (4wks for Skill 0 & 1, 8wks for Skill 2, etc) vs 8 +EDU -3 (penalty)
4th Attempt: the period of study is again half as long (4wks for Skill 0 & 1, 8wks for Skill 2, etc) vs 8 +EDU -5 (penalty)

Failure after the 4th attempt, basically means the player just does NOT have the ability, brains or talent to understand and put into practical that skill. He hits his ceiling for that skill.

Not everyone has the ability (Brains) for every skill. We all suck at something.

What do you think?

 

[Condottiere]

Change career, and try again.

 

[Shadowblayde99]

I would go with 3 strikes and you're out but, in my opinion, you have a better chance at succeeding the more you try so subsequent checks would have a +1 bonus rather than a penalty.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

You overpower EDU, or rather penalising low EDU.

The basic system is a very simple system, already favouring high EDU.

I would keep the basic roll, with a limit to the number of rolls if you wish.

Example:
EDU 5:
Basic: First roll: 9+ (28%), second roll 9+ (28%), third roll 9+ (28%); ~62% chance of success after three rolls.
Your: First roll: 9+ (28%), second roll 10+ (17%), third roll 12+ (3%); ~44% chance of success after three rolls.

EDU 10:
Basic: First roll: 7+ (58%), second roll 7+ (58%), third roll 7+ (58%); ~93% chance of success after three rolls.
Your: First roll: 7+ (58%), second roll 8+ (42%), third roll 10+ (17%); ~80% chance of success after three rolls.

Your system will shut out low EDU characters from a lot of skills, with a less than 50% chance of learning anything.
With the basic system both will get the skill, the high EDU character just a little faster.

Remember EDU already limits how many skill levels you can learn.


Perhaps distribute Training rolls over more characteristics? Practical skills vs STR or DEX, academic skills vs EDU, and so on? That way practical characters are encouraged to be more practical, and academics more academic. At a guess, the average mechanic will learn carpentry faster than the average historian?

 

[Arkathan]

If you don't like repeating the whole eight week session, use the effect of the failed roll to determine the number of weeks they need to repeat, and THEN allow additional weeks, up to a maximum combined total of eight weeks, to be added to the players education for the purpose of the next roll.
For example, the negative effect is a 2. They need two weeks of study to try again. Using eight weeks before retaking the EDU roll would allow them to have a +6 to their EDU score for purposes of THAT single roll, giving them an additional +2 on the roll.

 

[alex_greene]

Change career, and try again.

This is in play, after your careers.

 

[alex_greene]

Honestly, just give them the eight weeks. The EDU roll is just to see whether or not they can stay the course, rather than just give up and spend their days playing some sort of online video games or something. Refs can just assume that the characters are diligent enough to complete the course and grant them the success.
Why is it that Travellers have to fight for everything in this game? Combat, trade game, queues to the loo, everything? And why is it always a black-and-white, succeed-or-FAIL-FOREVER-YOU-LOSER roll? Haven't you heard of extension courses, retaking a failed module, and so on?

 

[Condottiere]

Online courses, virtual classrooms.

Have an artificial intelligence instructor for additional bonus to success.

 

[Arkathan]

Online courses, virtual classrooms.

Have an artificial intelligence instructor for additional bonus to success.

CSC 2023, Page 71
Personal Trainer software for your portable computer.
You have to buy a new version for each new skill studied for Cr2000.
Nothing says you cannot let other players/NPC's use it after you though.

 

[Vidgar]

Arkathan​

Yes, the Personal Trainer software give a +1, which got one of my player over the line, and my player will definitely share the software.

All my player's learning is being conducted with Personal Trainer software, while in Jump doing the Island of the Rift advantage. If the whole party had a layover on at good Tech Level planet, would give improvement in instructors (artificial intelligence) and specialise areas. This would add cost, reduce time and increase rolling bonus. Which more for me to think about, thanks.

AnotherDilbert​

Yes, I like the Practical skills vs STR/DEX, academic skills vs EDU/INT, idea. There is various degrees of overlap in some skill.
However, this would force induce players to work to their strengths.

Being a teacher, I know some people have a learning ceiling. One student could not understand basic electrical concepts, but became a brilliant steel metal craftsman.

 

[Condottiere]

Athletics should be accumulative.

Or depreciative, if not applied.

 

[alex_greene]

Travellers could acquire something like "learning points," with a weekly skill check against the skill they are practicing. In the case of something like Language or Science skill, that probably means hitting the lab, which means there'd have to be a workshop or lab aboard their ship.
If they don't have those facilities, a flat rate of 1 point applies. If they do, 1D / 2.
The check determines extra success, if the Effect is 3+, or -6: +2 for the former, +1 for the latter.
Any week that they are not studying, -1 learning point.
Using the skill you're studying in an adventure counts as studying. It's a practical phase.
As for how many points you need ... Level-0 for a cascade skill, 3 points. Level-1 for any non-cascade skill, 1 point. No real point in trying for level-0 if you're studying a single skill without specialities. The rest are 3 for level-2, 6 for level-3, 10 for level-4, and 15 for level-5.

 

[Condottiere]

Karma points are easier.

You can spend those on the skill you want to improve, but need to have demonstrated that you have used them recently, or at least, practiced really hard.

 

[MonkeyX]

There is of course boons and banes you could add to the roll depending if you feel it should be tougher or easier to learn a skill after multiple failures.

 

[Gavain]

For my games I use Learning Credits (LC). Each one represents a successful week of training in a specified skill. Success meaning that the traveller succeded in an EDU roll at the end of the week. If an effect of 6+ is rolled then 2 LC are given. The use of an in person tutor gives a bonus to the learning roll and an additional LC at the end of the week. Once enough LC have been earned the new skill level is awarded.

To Skill LC Cost
Skill 0 4
Skill 1 8
Skill 2 16
Skill 3 24

 

[MonsterX]

Nothing says you cannot let other players/NPC's use it after you though.

The FBI warning at the end of the video says that if you do that, you will face a fine of up to 100cr. and a prison sentence of not more than 50 years of hard labour, per view.

 

[dragon3r]

One of my players failed the education roll for his study period (8 weeks) and the others players said he had to start from scratch (weeks 1 of 8) again.

As a Technical trade teacher, I realized this is incorrect. He should have retain some information, so below is my idea for repeat study for a skill study.

1st Attempt: the period of study is normal length (8wks for Skill 0 & 1, 16wks for Skill 2, etc) vs 8 +EDU
2nd Attempt: the period of study is half as long (4wks for Skill 0 & 1, 8wks for Skill 2, etc) vs 8 +EDU -1 (penalty)
3rd Attempt: the period of study is again half as long (4wks for Skill 0 & 1, 8wks for Skill 2, etc) vs 8 +EDU -3 (penalty)
4th Attempt: the period of study is again half as long (4wks for Skill 0 & 1, 8wks for Skill 2, etc) vs 8 +EDU -5 (penalty)

Failure after the 4th attempt, basically means the player just does NOT have the ability, brains or talent to understand and put into practical that skill. He hits his ceiling for that skill.

Not everyone has the ability (Brains) for every skill. We all suck at something.

What do you think?

Generally I have not had them roll because it doesn't seem fair, such as for games lasting years in real time, game time it is only a few months, so that they are only seeing education come up rarely, and it is an increase of only +1.

 

[Arkathan]

The FBI warning at the end of the video says that if you do that, you will face a fine of up to 100cr. and a prison sentence of not more than 50 years of hard labour, per view.

So don't share programs in the Solomani Sphere.

 

[CordwainerFish]

The FBI warning at the end of the video says that if you do that, you will face a fine of up to 100cr. and a prison sentence of not more than 50 years of hard labour, per view.

 

[Anstett]

I guess they have not heard of 3D printing yet.