Data Wafer Max Bandwidth

[Terry Mixon]

I was looking at the info for a deconstruction chamber and saw that it could store patterns in a computer or data wafer. Some of the bigger items could be up to 64 bandwidth, but I thought data wafers were smaller in capacity than that. Like, a lot smaller. The wafer jack can handle up to 8 bandwidth, so is that the cap?

Can those little wafers be made to hold 64 bandwidth (since computers are basically zero space, maybe they hold that much and more) or will this be a matter of swapping floppy discs to load things? I'm half tempted to wave my hands and make larger 5 1/4 (or maybe be nice and leave it at 3 1/2 inch) wafers as an inside joke and have them be 64 bandwidth, but just want to know if this has been stated somewhere and I just missed it.

 

[AndrewW]

Can those little wafers be made to hold 64 bandwidth (since computers are basically zero space, maybe they hold that much and more) or will this be a matter of swapping floppy discs to load things? I'm half tempted to wave my hands and make larger 5 1/4 (or maybe be nice and leave it at 3 1/2 inch) wafers as an inside joke and have them be 64 bandwidth, but just want to know if this has been stated somewhere and I just missed it.

Or just go for 8" wafers.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Or just go for 8" wafers.

I’m not quite that old. Close, but not quite.

 

[tytalan]

I think you’re overthinking this. For some things you can store them on a data wafer but others (ones over the 8 bandwidth) you either use a computer or some other larger storage device (maybe a wafer box that holds 8 wafers that’s basically what hard drives do).

 

[Terry Mixon]

I think you’re overthinking this. For some things you can store them on a data wafer but others (ones over the 8 bandwidth) you either use a computer or some other larger storage device (maybe a wafer box that holds 8 wafers that’s basically what hard drives do).

I can (and will) certainly work around it like that if need be. I was just curious if the detail had ever been settled definitively.

 

[MasterGwydion]

I can (and will) certainly work around it like that if need be. I was just curious if the detail had ever been settled definitively.

My problem is how that part is written in the Robot Handbook. Bandwidth has nothing to do with storage capacity. Storage capacity in Traveller after like TL-9 is effectively unlimited.

I would ask the book's author what the intent was with that since, as written, it doesn't line up with any other rules in the game.

 

[Terry Mixon]

I would ask the book's author what the intent was with that since, as written, it doesn't line up with any other rules in the game.

That's kind of why I'm asking here.

 

[Geir]

What? "Bandwidth" as written is fairly consistent with the Computer 'Bandwidth" paradigm - which isn't as much about bandwidth as it is about an operating program emulating a skill - so that's memory and storage and processing power, and if the future of robots is anything like the current limited and annoying AI, there's a large amount of learning and connections that get built, so problem is that once you get that running on any sort of robot that has an advanced brain, it becomes an integral part of the whole. Or so I venture.

Of course ,you could treat "heads" like wafers and change them out to make a robot do different things. You'd just need a shelf full of robot heads and some tools... there are rules for reprogramming and robots in there as well.

But if you want to ask me how a TL12 robot brain actually works, might as well ask a Roman senator how to build a rocketship.

 

[Terry Mixon]

I just want to know if they go higher that 8 bandwidth. At Cr 5 that's pretty cheap, so no loss if they do. It just seems like that could scale up and have larger capacities for things like the deconstruction device to output to in one go rather than swapping floppies.

If they don't in the official universe, I'll likely resort to handwavium to make a larger one for such tasks, but I like knowing the rules as intended before I stomp all over them.

 

[Geir]

So... I may just be being obtuse (or overtired... that caffeine failed long ago and the Jameson does not correlate well with higher cognitive functions) but I didn't quite get the deconstruction chamber reference...

 

[Terry Mixon]

So... I may just be being obtuse (or overtired... that caffeine failed long ago and the Jameson does not correlate well with higher cognitive functions) but I didn't quite get the deconstruction chamber reference...

Robots Handbook, page 119.

Deconstruction Chamber: A deconstruction chamber is in some respects the opposite of an enhanced fabrication chamber. The chamber uses precise measuring devices and nanomachines to dissemble an object and record its composition at the molecular level. This process completely destroys the object but allows for construction of an identical object using an enhanced fabrication chamber. It can be used to ‘harvest’ memories and personality of a biological or robotic brain but the process is destructive. Enhanced fabricators can put the body back together but cannot restore memories or personalities, although they can be stored in electronic form for restoration onto an agent wafer in the case of a biological brain or a fresh robotic brain in the case of a robot. Output from the deconstruction process of a standard-sized chamber requires Bandwidth 32 to store in computer memory or on data wafers. Available at TL13, the deconstruction chamber is the size of a standard low berth, able to hold an item or person occupying 50 Slots or about 150 kilograms and requires 64 Slots if installed in a robot.

Deconstruction Chamber TL-13 200 kg MCr5

Smaller or larger deconstruction chambers are available. MCr1 is the cost of its core machinery and the remainder scales linearly, with a half-sized chamber costing MCr3 and a double-sized chamber costing MCr9.

---

Following the scaling (my guesswork):

Output from the deconstruction process:

Size 6: 64 Bandwidth
Size 5: 32 Bandwidth
Size 4: 16 Bandwidth
Size 3: 8 Bandwidth
Size 2: 4 Bandwidth
Size 1: 2 Bandwidth
Smaller items: 1 Bandwidth

 

[Geir]

Robots Handbook, page 119.

Deconstruction Chamber: A deconstruction chamber is in some respects the opposite of an enhanced fabrication chamber. The chamber uses precise measuring devices and nanomachines to dissemble an object and record its composition at the molecular level. This process completely destroys the object but allows for construction of an identical object using an enhanced fabrication chamber. It can be used to ‘harvest’ memories and personality of a biological or robotic brain but the process is destructive. Enhanced fabricators can put the body back together but cannot restore memories or personalities, although they can be stored in electronic form for restoration onto an agent wafer in the case of a biological brain or a fresh robotic brain in the case of a robot. Output from the deconstruction process of a standard-sized chamber requires Bandwidth 32 to store in computer memory or on data wafers. Available at TL13, the deconstruction chamber is the size of a standard low berth, able to hold an item or person occupying 50 Slots or about 150 kilograms and requires 64 Slots if installed in a robot.

Deconstruction Chamber TL-13 200 kg MCr5

Smaller or larger deconstruction chambers are available. MCr1 is the cost of its core machinery and the remainder scales linearly, with a half-sized chamber costing MCr3 and a double-sized chamber costing MCr9.

---

Following the scaling (my guesswork):

Output from the deconstruction process:

Size 6: 64 Bandwidth
Size 5: 32 Bandwidth
Size 4: 16 Bandwidth
Size 3: 8 Bandwidth
Size 2: 4 Bandwidth
Size 1: 2 Bandwidth
Smaller items: 1 Bandwidth

Okay, Sorry, had totally forgotten about that one because it was equipment and not a robot by the design rules. So if I can reconstruct my thinking from three years back, the assumption was you would need something like a Core computer or a bunch of wafers... so now I'm following. Sorry.

Since this is static data, the bandwidth paradigm is being twisted a bit here (my fault)...

To answer your original question, now that I'm oriented with my head out of posterior, then if it's just 'storage' - which we've basically established is 'unlimited' then there is no reason why you can't make bigger (8" floppy - I remember those but the last ones where being phased out as I phased in - but of course a double sided, double density 3.5" could store much more) wafer at Cr5 per 8 'bandwidth'. The 'Agent Wafer' is the magic wafer used in Marc Miller's Agent of the Imperium, and I would, based on that presentation, assume it is just a really high density format on a standard wager size, so it would fit in an existing wafer jack. Yeah, I can think of abuses and problems of doing it that way, but let's roll with it.

The thing with Agent of the Imperium, though is that it is just storing the brain part. The deconstruction chamber stores the entire physical body (like a really slow Star Trek transporter) so the wafer in the book is just perhaps 8 'bandwidth' containing the personality, and zero for the body and then it works better. I think. Sorry. Alcohol. Bad thing. Lowers bandwidth.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Okay, Sorry, had totally forgotten about that one because it was equipment and not a robot by the design rules. So if I can reconstruct my thinking from three years back, the assumption was you would need something like a Core computer or a bunch of wafers... so now I'm following. Sorry.

Since this is static data, the bandwidth paradigm is being twisted a bit here (my fault)...

To answer your original question, now that I'm oriented with my head out of posterior, then if it's just 'storage' - which we've basically established is 'unlimited' then there is no reason why you can't make bigger (8" floppy - I remember those but the last ones where being phased out as I phased in - but of course a double sided, double density 3.5" could store much more) wafer at Cr5 per 8 'bandwidth'. The 'Agent Wafer' is the magic wafer used in Marc Miller's Agent of the Imperium, and I would, based on that presentation, assume it is just a really high density format on a standard wager size, so it would fit in an existing wafer jack. Yeah, I can think of abuses and problems of doing it that way, but let's roll with it.

The thing with Agent of the Imperium, though is that it is just storing the brain part. The deconstruction chamber stores the entire physical body (like a really slow Star Trek transporter) so the wafer in the book is just perhaps 8 'bandwidth' containing the personality, and zero for the body and then it works better. I think. Sorry. Alcohol. Bad thing. Lowers bandwidth.

And that works for me. I won't be using the "higher bandwidth" wafers for anything but storage in the game I'm running, so I'll keep it sane. That's about what I expected, honestly. Thanks for expanding on the subject. I appreciate it.

 

[MasterGwydion]

What? "Bandwidth" as written is fairly consistent with the Computer 'Bandwidth" paradigm - which isn't as much about bandwidth as it is about an operating program emulating a skill - so that's memory and storage and processing power, and if the future of robots is anything like the current limited and annoying AI, there's a large amount of learning and connections that get built, so problem is that once you get that running on any sort of robot that has an advanced brain, it becomes an integral part of the whole. Or so I venture.

Of course ,you could treat "heads" like wafers and change them out to make a robot do different things. You'd just need a shelf full of robot heads and some tools... there are rules for reprogramming and robots in there as well.

But if you want to ask me how a TL12 robot brain actually works, might as well ask a Roman senator how to build a rocketship.

Vulcan builds it.