CSCupdate23: Rules Clarification: What exactly does the P-HUD (holographic) effect mean on page 176?

[Yenaldlooshi]

What exactly does the P-HUD (holographic) effect mean on page 176?

The entry is only; "+Holographic display". This is making me think that the "+" indicates that this is in addition (thus cumulative) to the effect of the TL 9 P-HUD above and that the "Holographic Display" is an additional benefit identical to the benefit of the "Holographic Sight" on the previous page 175 (thus also cumulative).

So to be clear, it should read instead:
"DM+1 to all attack rolls for keyed weapons. DM+2 to all attack rolls 50+ meters away. Gives Scope Trait"
This would be the DM above at TL9 added to and giving also the holographic sight benefits, without needing to add a holographic sight.

Am I right? am I wrong? I am just trying to figure out what the real game play benefit is other than just you can call it "holographic" and don't need a visual device. The interpretation above seems to justify the higher TL requirement and the fact that it would cost 1,000Cr more.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

What exactly does the P-HUD (holographic) effect mean on page 176?

The entry is only; "+Holographic display". This is making me think that the "+" indicates that this is in addition (thus cumulative) to the effect of the TL 9 P-HUD above and that the "Holographic Display" is an additional benefit identical to the benefit of the "Holographic Sight" on the previous page 175 (thus also cumulative).

It just means that the hud is non-obvious when not used. No extra DM implied.
Just apply what the text says.

If I wanted to be petty I would say "Holographic display" ≠ "Holographic Sights".

I would allow both to be used cumulatively, basically one is described as a scope and the other a windage calculator, but that is subject to Referee discretion.

 

[Geir]

The holographic display is just a replacement of a real glass (or name-your transparent screen material) with virtual glass. In other words a holographic 'image' of a HUD.

 

[Yenaldlooshi]

The holographic display is just a replacement of a real glass (or name-your transparent screen material) with virtual glass. In other words a holographic 'image' of a HUD.

That's not a lot of advantage for Cr1000 and a higher TL requirement.

 

[Vormaerin]

Then don't get it if it isn't worth it to you? IRL people buy lots of stuff just because its cool or even just because it is more expensive. Others don't buy stuff because they don't think the new stuff is worth it.

Sure, in a game, the fact that holographic sights are harder to break, unlikely to get affected by mud/scratches/whatever, and won't accidentally reflect sunlight for the famous sniper spotting move of every media ever is not reflected because that level of detail is excessively tedious. But they absolutely would be a real thing even if they didn't get more "accuracy bonus" than a standard scope.

 

[Yenaldlooshi]

Then don't get it if it isn't worth it to you? IRL people buy lots of stuff just because its cool or even just because it is more expensive. Others don't buy stuff because they don't think the new stuff is worth it.

Sure, in a game, the fact that holographic sights are harder to break, unlikely to get affected by mud/scratches/whatever, and won't accidentally reflect sunlight for the famous sniper spotting move of every media ever is not reflected because that level of detail is excessively tedious. But they absolutely would be a real thing even if they didn't get more "accuracy bonus" than a standard scope.

There is no stated game mechanic for any "harder to break, unlikely to get affected by mud/scratches/whatever, and won't accidentally reflect sunlight.." etc. If there was, then that would make a bit more sense.

My comment about the high price for the upgrade does not come from a place of being some sort of fictional outraged consumer but from a place of finding play balanced ROI in the game. I am just wondering if I am missing something in what this Cr1000 upgrade is supposed to give one as it seems a bit high.

 

[Vormaerin]

Right. My point is that play balance ROI isn't a criterion of the design of the game, so you will quite likely find a lot of cases where it isn't there.

There are reasons why IRL people would use holographic sights despite the extra cost. But those reasons are at a level of granularity that the game does not inflict on the players. So, if you only care about explicit mechanics, don't buy holographic sights.

 

[Yenaldlooshi]

The holographic display is just a replacement of a real glass (or name-your transparent screen material) with virtual glass. In other words a holographic 'image' of a HUD.

But would the TL 11 Holographic P-HUD at least get the DM+1 that the TL 9 has? (that is not really made clear from the effect column)

 

[Vormaerin]

Oh. For that, the advantage is that you get the holographic scope without needing to wear a helmet, visor, or other thing for the display to project onto. The tech 9 P-HUD means you are wearing something over your eyes that shows where your gun is pointing even if you aren't facing where the gun is. The tech 11 version, it just shows in your view without needing any other gear to display it.

 

[Yenaldlooshi]

Right. My point is that play balance ROI isn't a criterion of the design of the game, so you will quite likely find a lot of cases where it isn't there.

There are reasons why IRL people would use holographic sights despite the extra cost. But those reasons are at a level of granularity that the game does not inflict on the players. So, if you only care about explicit mechanics, don't buy holographic sights.

Well, when it comes to the game system books (not adventure suppliments), I care quite a lot about the explicit mechanics. That is what I am buying. When supplying cosmetic detail and description, I can do that myself or I would look to world book suppliments for inspiration. the Core Books of a system or suppliments to the system such as the CSC, that is where I am hoping to find a balanced system that is a challenge to "break".

That all said, in the case of this example, it is what it is. I just wanted to make sure I was neither missing something or imposing something that was not the writer's intent. Thanks!

 

[Vormaerin]

The P-HUD is Tech 9, costs Cr1500 and is a 0.5kg helmet or visor and gives +1 to hit at all ranges.
The Holographic P-HUD is tech 11, costs Cr2500 and requires no other gear, thus having no weight. It also gives +1 to hit at all ranges.

The Holographic Scope is Tech 10, costs Cr2000, and is an attachment to your weapon. It gives +1 to hit (for the same reason as the HUD), but also acts as a Scope, removing the extreme range effects when aiming. But you have to be looking down the weapon to use the scope. Think of it as a laser scope where there's no laser for anyone to detect.

The +1 to hit for the targeting reticule is the same for all three items, so no stacking occurs. The H-Scope has the "Best" effect, but the HUDs give you the ability to be looking elsewhere while still seeing where your aiming point is.

 

[Vormaerin]

Well, when it comes to the game system books (not adventure suppliments), I care quite a lot about the explicit mechanics. That is what I am buying. When supplying cosmetic detail and description, I can do that myself or I would look to world book suppliments for inspiration. the Core Books of a system or suppliments to the system such as the CSC, that is where I am hoping to find a balanced system that is a challenge to "break".

That all said, in the case of this example, it is what it is. I just wanted to make sure I was neither missing something or imposing something that was not the writer's intent. Thanks!

Sorry, I didn't understand your actual question properly at first. So my initial answers were not as helpful as I would have liked. I hope the post before this one clarified your actual question.

 

[Yenaldlooshi]

Oh. For that, the advantage is that you get the holographic scope without needing to wear a helmet, visor, or other thing for the display to project onto. The tech 9 P-HUD means you are wearing something over your eyes that shows where your gun is pointing even if you aren't facing where the gun is. The tech 11 version, it just shows in your view without needing any other gear to display it.

hmm... I wonder why the entry reads "+Holographic display" instead of "Holographic display". the random "+" indicates it is an addition to something.

 

[Vormaerin]

Probably just a case of the author knowing what he meant and everyone expecting the paragraph of text to cover the meaning in case of confusion. Technically, you could still wear a helmet and have the Tech 11 display on your helmet's HUD if you wanted. You just also have the option of a fully holographic HUD if you don't want to wear the display device.

 

[Geir]

Probably just a case of the author knowing what he meant and everyone expecting the paragraph of text to cover the meaning in case of confusion. Technically, you could still wear a helmet and have the Tech 11 display on your helmet's HUD if you wanted. You just also have the option of a fully holographic HUD if you don't want to wear the display device.

Yes. That.
I supposed I should have written '+ Holographic display,- HUD screen' but that would be silly. The other entries around it use the '+ something' format as well. Shorthand for 'what the above does, plus something'.