Conan and Kids

[Vortigern]

I happen to be quite fond of nude girls. Very as a matter of fact.

I also however don't think that is something for the public venue.

The two are not mutually exclusive ideas.

And my own opinion as to the american teen pregnancy rate would place half of the blame on american liberally skewed mandatory sexual education classes that approach the matter with a seemingly permissive and practically accepting attitude toward teens being sexually active.

The other half I suppose would open an entirely different discussion. ( broader questions of culture. )

And I think the simple statement that people are more prone to emulate certain types of popularized/often seen behaviors than others is rather obviously and logically true.

 

[Barbarossa Rotbart]

Yeah, that's the problem. Conservatives that think that sex ed will automatically lead to teenage pregnancies and lewd behavior. And faux sex ed which does not educate but only say that should not do it und BTW if you lost your virginity we can give it back to you.

 

[Vortigern]

...

A very loaded statement. Suffice it to say that I am in favor of education in all of it's forms, yet I think it can be done without a permissive or accepting overtone.

You can still be a good parent, educating your child and having an open trusting relationship, while still //acting// like a parent and not their friend. The same goes with teachers/educators at school. When they start speaking with a 'you know we would rather you didn't, but we all know you are anyway... so... be safe.' tone, they lose all moral authority.

You may find it difficult to believe but there was a time in america not so very long ago when a teen, or indeed any unwed, pregnancy was quite taboo and stigmatized. It is the cultural differences between now and then, which are much more accepting and permissive, which provide an environment where kids make more stupid decisions despite perhaps being 'better' educated.

Stating my dislike for that permissive attitude is not the same thing as advocating ignorance... equating the two is... illogical to me.

 

[Ranzadule]

"Once you've seen one woman naked, you pretty much want to see the rest of them naked." -- Ron White

Speaking of that:

 

[lastbesthope]

I'll be adding that film to my list.

LBH

 

[Barbarossa Rotbart]

I can only hope that it is much better than the first movie.

 

[Ranzadule]

It has to be. Wasn't the part of Red Sonja played by a dude in the first movie?

Editted for proof:

 

[FailedSpotCheck]

Flava Flave was dating a man, baby!! :lol:

Seriously. Is that Rose McGowan on the poster??? Since they broke up I doubt the film is still green-lit. :?

 

[Aragorn300]

Sigh...enough Euro vs US on nudity/violence!...Africa has twice as much problems with violence and rape than either and most Africans don't even have a tv! In South Africa men are raping pre-teens because they think it prevents and/or cure aids and in norther africa 13 years go around with AK-47's to prove their manhood...Heck, we're more prudish than Asians and places like Thailand make most Germans seem like prudes!

The US is more prudish than europe---that's why we invented the internet so that we can keep our kids from watching rated R movies while we adults download hentai :twisted:

KEEPING ON THE SUBJECT---kids and Conan...
My daughter is 14 and I am a typical american prude. I started her reading REH's Soloman Kane and am starting her on Conan. She is a mixed race child and I handle the racism by stating an obvious fact; in Conan, all the characters have racist sentiments including BETWEEN WHITE RACES...After all, Conan is often an outcast because he is a Cimmerian. And Conan's negative mention of black races is also because he is refering to the one's he has dealt with--most of whom tried to kill him...but he also has led them and treated them as equals when fighting.

And in REH's Solomon Kane stories the white puritan hero becomes attached to Africa and African culture by a "witch doctor".
As for the nudity, I brought Conan novels to a job I had working with troubled teens. they had a rule against nudity---I used a grey fine point marker and edited it. The nudity was needed to read Conan and it isnt needed to play it.

 

[Aragorn300]

OOPS....I meant to say in my last comment nudity was not needed to read it. There is nudity in the written REH but it left it to the mind's eye to interpet.

 

[Barbarossa Rotbart]

There is a small flaw in your theory!
The (US) american culture is only a variant of the european culture, having the same roots, but the different cultures in Africa and Asia have also different roots.

Back to the topic:
I think that in some years REH's stories will 'suffer' the same fate that the stories of authors like Arthur Conan Doyle, Jules Verne, Karl May etc. have suffered.

 

[Aragorn300]

My theory was mostly just to get everyone back to the original discussion. :wink:

Unfortunately, mssr Barbarossa is probably correct...Not only Verne and Doyle but hundreds of others...When I first read alan moore's graphic novel "league of distingused gentleman" I was appalled to discover that few I shared it with had ever read any of the original novels Moore's characters came from.
That is why it is important for foolish old gamers such as ourselves to pass on this rich legacy of fiction to our children. And if playing Conan gets my 14 year old to read REH then I will do so with great delight, the
same way I got playing Call of Cthullu with some friends to get them to read REH's old pen pal HP Lovecraft.

 

[cbrunish]

As an American I must give my opinion. The majority of the people are prudes. Nudity is taboo (especially the female chest, but the male chest is fine). I think there lies the problem. It seems that the more you push a child away from something, the more they want to see it. The same goes for sex (the act). This might be why there are more problems with teen pregnancy in the US compared to Europe.

From a historical perspective you have to remember any religion that went against the establishment was either sent to America or came over to avoid persocution. We have some very strict religions in America. And as a group they VOTE! Hense, the reason for the restrictions to sex and nudity.

As to the original question, I remember my brother starting me out on Conan when I was around 12. Yes the sex and nudity of some of the books made me excited but the writing was EXCELLENT!!! I also read Burrows' Tarzan. Which wasn't quite as racist and not nearly as sexual.

As I am also a father of a 31/2 girl, I will let her make up her mind when she becomes 12 or so. And as she is biracial (black/white), I will explain to her about the time when REH was written. Twain was also very racist but again you have to look at the time it was written. A racist book written now would probably be blacklisted. Times and people change but that should not affect literary arts.

On, another note, I have a degree in History/Political Science so my spelling is atrocious. I don't see a spell check with this post. Sorry.

 

[Style]

I blame Bush.

 

[cbrunish]

That is the problem. Most males love Bush too much!!! :lol:

 

[Vortigern]

Are we digressing into political discussion as opposed to Conan discussion again? If so I can gladly re-engage. Plenty of ammo left, to put things mildly. I just would like to refrain from thread re-derailment. :roll:

 

[Barbarossa Rotbart]

...
Unfortunately, mssr Barbarossa is probably correct...Not only Verne and Doyle but hundreds of others...When I first read alan moore's graphic novel "league of distingused gentleman" I was appalled to discover that few I shared it with had ever read any of the original novels Moore's characters came from.

That's just one case.
Another is that at first the age of the average reader is getting lower.
A third case is that many know these pieces of literature only as movies or comics, and those versions differ in most cases from the original stories.
In the case of Conan (but also Sherlock Holmes, James Bond etc.), the comics, the movies and mostly the pastiches did agreat damage, but they kept characters in the memory of the common people.

That is why it is important for foolish old gamers such as ourselves to pass on this rich legacy of fiction to our children. And if playing Conan gets my 14 year old to read REH then I will do so with great delight, the same way I got playing Call of Cthullu with some friends to get them to read REH's old pen pal HP Lovecraft.

That's a great idea.

 

[Gavinwulf]

My father introduced me to Conan when I was in 6th grade or lower, I remember doing a book report on 'Conan the Cimmerian' in 6th grade. So that would make me about 11 years old.
Personally I don't think I was negatively influenced by the books at all. They inspired me to join sports and be physically active. They inspired me to be patriotic about personal freedoms, etc.
I've never been arrested for violent behavior or sexual misconduct, nor have I done anything to warrant such an arrest. lol.

I think boys will be boys- violence and sexuality are exciting. Numerous studies have already concluded that the kids who have had their violent or sexual energy supressed turn out to be psychos. It's the kids who sit against the wall and don't play during recess who act out later.

As another example, I can't remember ever NOT being able to shoot a firearm. Guns were like peices of household furniture growing up, yet I've never had an accidental shooting or gone out to 'bust a cap on someone's ass'. Because I was taught how to use one and taught responsibility, there was never this taboo mystique that made me want to 'play' with a gun and shoot at my friends or something.

Being taught responsibility is key, in my opinion. If you want to talk about the differences between americans and europeans, I think more Europeans teach their children responsibility better. That's why there is less teenage pregancies, that's where there is less alcohol related deaths, etc. Just take a look at our education systems and it's very plain there too. That's one reason why I think socialized medicine is bad here, people are just wanting the government to do everything for them.

On the subject of boobs, I don't think it's necessarily that boobs are taboo, I think that americans project too much sexuality onto them. Why is nursing your own child going out of style in the US? Why are the mothers who do nurse, wean their children far earlier than they should (children SHOULD be weaned at about 2-3 years old)? It's because in our society we've made them into sex objects instead of the beautiful feminine endowments a woman is blessed with to rear her children. I like tits just as much as the next guy, but they are so much more than just sex objects. My point is that in the US all nudity is considered sexual. And I do agree that sexuality is considered base and taboo by most here.

 

[Style]

My daughter, who won't turn three years old until September, loves Conan. She's seen me reading this book http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bloody_Crown_of_Conan, and asked me to read it to her. Now if I actually read the stories within, she'd lose interest in about 20 seconds because it's over head. However, there is a good deal of art within (by Gary Gianni), so I just flip to the pictures, and tell her a story to go with them.

With her age and limited understanding, I alter the stories, making them less violent. For example, she LOVES The People of the Black Circle. As far as she knows, it's a tale about Yasmina and Conan going on a quest to get her brother, who is sick at the start of the tale, medicine. In the end, they get medicine from the black seers, Yasmina's brother gets better, and they have a big party inviting all their friends (who show up in full arms and armor).

My daughter is becoming a Conan addict. The last week she's been asking me constantly to tell her Conan stories. We don't even bother pulling out the illustrated books for the pictures any more, I just tell them to her with no props. We curl up on the couch, and as soon as I finish one she immediately requests another. It's great fun, with the only problem being my voice some times gets tired!

Yasmina is still her favorite supporting character, so I will occasionally place her in other tales, and give her a more heroic role. For example, she really enjoys Iron Shadows of the Moon, where Yasmina sneaks into the pirate camp and saves Conan.

She loves to pretend as well. She used to pretend she was Dora, and she'd tell me that I was Boots. Now she pretends she's Yasmina, and tells me I'm Conan. Sometimes she'll combine this pretending with the story telling. For example, last night she said to me "Conan, tell me another story about us!" We're having a ball.

 

[Gavinwulf]

That's pretty awesome Style. Dare I say 'Cute' in a conan forum?