Conan and Kids

[Style]

Father's Day seems like as good a day as any to start this thread. How do you introduce Conan to children?

My daughter, who won't turn three years old until September, loves Conan. She's seen me reading this book http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bloody_Crown_of_Conan, and asked me to read it to her. Now if I actually read the stories within, she'd lose interest in about 20 seconds because it's over head. However, there is a good deal of art within (by Gary Gianni), so I just flip to the pictures, and tell her a story to go with them.

With her age and limited understanding, I alter the stories, making them less violent. For example, she LOVES The People of the Black Circle. As far as she knows, it's a tale about Yasmina and Conan going on a quest to get her brother, who is sick at the start of the tale, medicine. In the end, they get medicine from the black seers, Yasmina's brother gets better, and they have a big party inviting all their friends (who show up in full arms and armor).

Conan's a tricky subject. Not only do you have violence, but you also have racism, sexism, xenophobia, rape, and so on. It adds an extra snag to the mix that she is a daughter, not a son. I'm trying to raise a strong, modern woman, and let's face it, most of the females in Howard's tales are "damsels in distress".

I've thought about starting her with some Conan cartoons (in a few years). Shows like Conan the Adventurer could work, but that show is SOOOO non-pure, I really don't want her thinking that is what Conan is all about. I'd rather she start with pure Howard Canon, and after that is she wants to explore pastiches, she's welcome, but she'll know the difference.

I found this:

As far as I remember (I don't have the book at hand), in The Vale Of Lost Women, Conan states he wouldn't let "a white woman in the hands of a black man". I know it was 80 years ago (and in Texas!) but stuff like this really stink.
My vision of the hyborian world is racist, xenophobic and sexist

That's an overreaction I think. And a generalisation. There is certainly a general attitude that people should protect their own where women are concerned, but Conan doesn't seem to be particularly racist. Some people are, but others are not. Xenophobia is also very mixed. The Picts are, but many areas are highly cosmopolitan; Zamboula for example. Sexism is certainly present, but those who use women solely as objects are uniformly the villains, and those who defy their gender roles, like Belit or Valeria, are heroines.

The only good answer I see is simply to wait till she's old enough for me to explain it to her. I can explain to her how the world is now, how it was in Howard's time, how it was at various times in our history, and how it is in the Hyborian Age. I can then emphasize what kintire said, and maybe she'll enjoy the stories as much as me. This likely means I'm going to have to wait a long time, but I don't see any other good way.

 

[Paladin]

No idea. At this point I've not introduced it to my sons that have played other games. Primarily because they can't even look at the rulebooks due to nudity. I can control the content during game sessions, but letting them at the reference tools would send my wife through the roof.

 

[Clovenhoof]

Primarily because they can't even look at the rulebooks due to nudity.

oO You don't let your sons look at books because there are drawings of nipples in them? What do you think would happen if they looked at them?

 

[Barbarossa Rotbart]

No idea. At this point I've not introduced it to my sons that have played other games. Primarily because they can't even look at the rulebooks due to nudity. I can control the content during game sessions, but letting them at the reference tools would send my wife through the roof.

How old are your sons?
If they are above 13, the sort of nudity shown in the rulebook should really not a problem (but the pictures of killings and removed heads should). I have several adventure (for a german RPG (DSA/TDE)) with partial nudity which were rated '14 and older'. But nearly none of the nudity there has sexual reasons. It is mostly cultural nudity ('primitive' jungle tribes similiar to the native south americans of the real world or the black kingdom tribes of the Hyborian Age) and sometimes situational nudity.
(BTW does your wife also has a problem with books about ancient greek art (or history) in the hands of your kids?)

IMO the real problem of Conan and kids is that racism, sexsim and exaggerated brutality is part of the world. Most other RPG (D&D, DSA/TDE, ...) have an equality of the genders and a different kind of racism (mostly against monstrous races likes orcs) and the brutality has been softened.

 

[Diabolus]

It would send his wife through the roof.

Do keep up!

:wink:

My daughter is four and loves "battles!" (she likes the old animated The Hobbit and Return of the King from Rankin/Bass in the 1970s that I have on DVD). That said, I think it will be QUITE some time before I let her read REH.

I just wouldn't want to have her slip with her mom i.e. "Pookie, did you pick up your toys?" "I'll varnish the floor with your brains, Mommy"

Conan at his purest is NOT for kids. And yeah, my wife would go nuts over the nipples as well. Not that my daughter has shown any interest in the rules, but I don't want her to have nightmares about barbarians or demons.

EDIT "purist" vs "purest", egads!

 

[Barbarossa Rotbart]

...

My daughter is four and loves "battles!" (she likes the old animated The Hobbit and Return of the King from Rankin/Bass in the 1970s that I have on DVD)...

... but I don't want her to have nightmares about barbarians or demons.

..., but nightmares about orcs and wraiths?

 

[Diabolus]

Nope, none.

The Rankin/Bass films were made for TV and a are a lot more sanitized than Howard's gritty Hyborian prose.

I do catch her singing "Where there's a whip there's a way" sometimes however.

 

[Barbarossa Rotbart]

TV?
AFAIK only the second one was made for TV, which is no sequel of the first one which has in Germany a rating of '12 and older' (e.g. "Star Wars - Episode I" has a rating of '6 and older').

 

[Paladin]

It would send his wife through the roof.

Do keep up!

:wink:

Exactly.

 

[Clovenhoof]

TV?
Zap into any tv ad block during any German TV afternoon show, and you'll see more nudity than in all the Conan rulebooks combined.

I'd be a bit more concerned about graphic descriptions of violence, but not too much. Traditional fairytales like Grimms' are also pretty gory, and kids have grown up with these for centuries.

 

[Paladin]

How old are your sons?

11 & 7.5 (6, 4, 2 and a 3 mo old daughter)

BTW does your wife also has a problem with books about ancient greek art (or history) in the hands of your kids?

Yup.

 

[Barbarossa Rotbart]

How old are your sons?

11 & 7.5 (6, 4, 2 and a 3 mo old daughter)

7 1/2 is in my opinion a bit to young for roleplaying games, but 11 is just the right starting age (the first edition of D&D was rated '10 and above' in Germany) for most of them. If you really want to play Conan with them, then you should simplify the world and the rules (and do not give them the book).

BTW does your wife also has a problem with books about ancient greek art (or history) in the hands of your kids?

Yup.

Then she will have a big problem when the kids grow older and learn about greek arts and history and biology in school.

 

[Old Bear]

IMO the real problem of Conan and kids is that racism, sexsim and exaggerated brutality is part of the world. Most other RPG (D&D, DSA/TDE, ...) have an equality of the genders and a different kind of racism (mostly against monstrous races likes orcs) and the brutality has been softened.

Yeah, because none of that exists in real life, does it? :roll:

 

[Barbarossa Rotbart]

Yeah, because none of that exists in real life, does it? :roll:

That's right!

 

[Style]

IMO the real problem of Conan and kids is that racism, sexsim and exaggerated brutality is part of the world. Most other RPG (D&D, DSA/TDE, ...) have an equality of the genders and a different kind of racism (mostly against monstrous races likes orcs) and the brutality has been softened.

Yeah, because none of that exists in real life, does it? :roll:

Clearly things like sexism and racism are things I'll have to discuss with her at some time, one way or another, whether she has any interest in Conan or not.

I was just wondering if anyone had any advice, or could share any experiences, for breaking children into REH.

 

[Style]

How old are your sons?

11 & 7.5 (6, 4, 2 and a 3 mo old daughter)

BTW does your wife also has a problem with books about ancient greek art (or history) in the hands of your kids?

Yup.

Wow, that's bad. I've been thinking about taking my 2 year old to the local art museum soon to see if she's into it yet. She's probably a little too young yet, but it's worth a try.

7 1/2 is in my opinion a bit to young for roleplaying games

For playing Conan? Yes. D&D? Maybe, depending on the game and maturity of the child. RPGs in general? Hell no. Children love to pretend. RPGs are just a set of rules to slap onto your pretending. I've been sending her on adventures for months now, in the style of Dora the Explorer episodes, using a handful of props. It's basically playing house, but instead of pretending to be mommy and daddy and having babies, we go treasure hunting. All I'd have to do is start using a couple rules, and it could be a larp.

 

[Clovenhoof]

For children's first contact with RPGs, I'd suggest something more visual and less complex like the good old Hero Quest tabletop game. I got that one at age 9 or 10 or so and we had a blast. From there, you can move on to real p&p rpgs a while later.

 

[Barbarossa Rotbart]

I was just wondering if anyone had any advice, or could share any experiences, for breaking children into REH.

That's really hard. Although these series are far from canon, "Conan the Adventurer" and "Conan and the Young Warriors" are two animated series which could be used as a start.
Another way could be a RPG which initially leaves out the mature themes of the World of REH. Take a look a the classics of children's literature (most of those books were originally not written for children) and bring your Conan campaign to that level.

7 1/2 is in my opinion a bit to young for roleplaying games

For playing Conan? Yes. D&D? Maybe, depending on the game and maturity of the child. RPGs in general? Hell no. Children love to pretend. RPGs are just a set of rules to slap onto your pretending. I've been sending her on adventures for months now, in the style of Dora the Explorer episodes, using a handful of props. It's basically playing house, but instead of pretending to be mommy and daddy and having babies, we go treasure hunting. All I'd have to do is start using a couple rules, and it could be a larp.

I meant comercial RPGs. I know only one (failed) RPG ("DSA Junior") that was made for children. It was nothing more than a board game with RPG elements (similiar to Hero Quest), but it was a good start for young roleplaying gamers.
Then were was a RPG in which you play stuffed toys. It was fun and also a good start into the world of RPGs (even for older children or adults). The way you play with your daughter is similiar to that RPG (called PP&P ("Plüsch, Power & Plunder").

 

[Paladin]

How old are your sons?

11 & 7.5 (6, 4, 2 and a 3 mo old daughter)

7 1/2 is in my opinion a bit to young for roleplaying games, but 11 is just the right starting age (the first edition of D&D was rated '10 and above' in Germany) for most of them. If you really want to play Conan with them, then you should simplify the world and the rules (and do not give them the book).

They aren't in our normal gaming group, but they love to play on long road trips. Keeps me awake while I drive and we all have fun. And not to brag, but they are smarter than the average bears.

BTW does your wife also has a problem with books about ancient greek art (or history) in the hands of your kids?

Yup.

Then she will have a big problem when the kids grow older and learn about greek arts and history and biology in school.

You answered the issue yourself, "...when the kids grow older..."

 

[Majestic7]

In order to answer to the original question, it really depends on how you define "kid." Conan and Howard's works in general are certainly not fit for pre-teen children. However, younger boys at least might enjoy reading Edgar Rice Burrough's Barsoom stories. They are a bit like... Hyborian Age Lite. They have the same sense of adventure and wonder, but not as much gore and sex involved. I certainly liked them when I was 10 - 12.

I think Conan stories would be okay for teens. I must have been 12 or 13 when I read first time REH yarns and loved every single page. As a kid I loved the sense of adventure and combat - at older age, I began to appreciate the way Howard weaves together a world of cunning political plots and ancient mysteries while still writing action-filled pulp adventures. I think far too many people underestimate Howard, seeing only the flying gore & naked women side of his stories. I kind of think that those two elements are something he was required to use to sell his stories, while his true skill in writing, knowledge of history and flight of imagination are best visible in the other elements.

Running Conan RPG for youngsters depends a lot on what elements one wishes to use. Dungeon crawls and temple raids are things that should be okay for younger crowd - but it is quite obvious that intrigue political plots will miss that audience, while many mature elements might be a bit too rough on the edges for them to handle. My first RPG-like experience other than computer games (anyone remember Wasteland?) was Hero Quest. I think someone mentioned it in this thread. I must have been around 10, when we started to add new content to it by making up quests and in practice, a player at the time being a kind of GM.

Yeah, well, I really don't have any experience on children or anything, just blathering random stuff. You shouldn't underestimate the level of comprehension children can have about fiction, though. I remember that when I was a kid reading Burroughs, Verne or Dumas, I knew that those were old books and kind of saw them not only as independent stories, but as well as windows to a past world - they portrayed what kind of things were thought to be exciting and/or "good" decades or a century ago.