Changes for 3rd edition ACTA

[Greg Smith]

I do see both the Narn and Abbai as both relying on large numbers of secondary AD and both lacking the speed and manueverability to get those into range.

I'm not advocating a change simply to bring them into line with other fleets. Or even changing every single Narn and Abbai ship to 12" range on all of their secondaries, however certain ships in both of those races would benefit from a longer range. The Dilgar and Early EA both have 8" range secondaries, but also have enough weapons at longer ranges to not rely on those shorter range guns for a significant part of their firepower.

Example: the Bimith would benefit from an extra turn, or it instead it would could have range 12". Either might boost the ship to an acceptable level, or a mix of both might be needed. Whichever was chosen would need testing.

 

[katadder]

well the extra turn needs no testing as we know the bimith was ok with that for all of 1e
basically the bimith should be the 1e ship with shields (obviously the lower damage to reflect this).

 

[Greg Smith]

Of course, nothing else has changed... :?

 

[Triggy]

Well in an ideal world the Lakara may benefit from a slight upgrade but as katadder says, at least the Bimith fix is simple and "tested"

I heartily agree with CZuschlag about variety being the spice of life in games like these. For instance, the Abbai may suffer with range on their secondaries (debatably the quad arrays are their primary weapons...) but giving them another way to deal with this other than boosting speed is the way to go. Certainly giving the Bimith back its second turn is a must and it would be interesting to see the Lakara/Juyaca with a second turn. This way they have the survivability and moderate speed but then have the manoeuvrability to get their guns to bear.

 

[katadder]

Of course, nothing else has changed... :?

I know other things changed, but the bimith got a nerf so needs to be brought back to what it was at the very least. getting into range 8 is not a major problem with speed 8 and 2 turns.
and only one race really lost its range 8 guns on the change to 2e anyway. lets not take range 8 away from yet another race or we will all end up playing starcastle once 3e comes out and min range is 30"

 

[Ripple]

Local idea pushed around by Chris and me was to have a dodge dependent on range a bit like stealth. 4+ say at ranges over 30, 5+ down to 20, 6+ down to 10... only as long as the shield was active. It gave the abbai a way to make folks want to fight them in close... especially in time limited games.

Still think the extra turn is a good idea... Chris thought they should have had the +1 crew quality to make Come about easier as a different thought.

Ripple

 

[CZuschlag]

Clarification on the idea: it's not exactly a dodge. It's supposed to simulate the effect of a Gravitic Shield distorting spacetime such that the weapon misses the target; kind of the reverse of gravitic lensing from quantum singularities (black holes to you folks in the States.)

As such, this "Dodge" would affect all weapon systems, including those with the Accurate property. Weapons with the Energy Mine property would be unaffected.

This effect would occur before Interceptors and before (obviously) Close Blast Doors.

 

[Da Boss]

The other thought is the Centauri Guardian array - it seems a very Abbai type of system enabling defence of other ships as well as your own?

I also got the impression the Abbai like to fight from behind fixed defences where possible- be nice to have something that reflected that?

 

[Burger]

A shield transfer system would be cool. So a ship can transfer any amount of its current shields to another ship, as long as the target doesn't exceed its maximum. Could be an SA or just allow as much transferring as you like/allowed at the end of the movement phase.

 

[Da Boss]

Or escort shields to allow them to extend their shields to a certain distance to allow the smaller ships to shelter within the protection of larger ones?

Maybe on the Lakra, Juuyaca and Brivoki and perhaps a Shyarie varient with it and no disruptors? (cos I love the model)?

 

[MongooseMatt]

A shield transfer system would be cool. So a ship can transfer any amount of its current shields to another ship, as long as the target doesn't exceed its maximum. Could be an SA or just allow as much transferring as you like/allowed at the end of the movement phase.

Not quite. But yes, the Abbai do get something.

Actually, I am planning for most races to get something cool and funky - we want P&P to be a book where most people go 'Wow!' when they see what their fleet can do - and then feel dread when they see what others are capable of

We are not looking at any kind of balance or paradigm shift for the fleets with P&P, just new options that should (hopefully) promote some new tactics.

 

[Ripple]

Shield sharing would only make the abbai lack of refresh ability that much more of an issue.

Basing it on larger ships would only make the abbai slower and less maneuverable, making the use of the two truly good hulls even harder (Milani and Tiraca). You might die very slightly slower, but you would inflict even less.

Guardian array would be helpful, but is part of the Centauri special rules and fairly unique. And while it would help to some degree would not solve the issue with the lakara or the bimith, both of whom already have interceptors.

If your going to steal tech, steal the gravitic shifter, at least then you can turn ship's in toward you to force them to meet your short ranged goodness when they go for their slightly longer range secondaries.

Abbai need something new added on top... sloshing around what they already have would not help them.

Good suggestions would be added range on the Lakara's beam and/or more maneuverability (not more speed, but better able to turn... couple ways to do that) to help with overruns that mean most abbai only get one shot at a ship.

You want abbai to lend something... maybe they can lend attack dice to their fellows... so the one or two ships that get in range can attack like three or four so fewer dice go to waste. A bit like escort lending, but lending anti-ship level dice.

Ripple

 

[Triggy]

We have an idea that should help the Abbai somewhat but I like the sound of "Guardian Array style" Quad Arrays that can lend extra AD to ships in arc. This would really give a lot of use to those larger Abbai ships in particular lending their AD to ships in all directions.

 

[Tolwyn]

We are not looking at any kind of balance

How have I to understand this? :?

 

[Burger]

We are not looking at any kind of balance

How have I to understand this? :?

Undestand it as "out of context" which is what it is! Matt said they're not looking at any kind of balance or paradigm shift.

 

[Poi]

Actually, I am planning for most races to get something cool and funky - we want P&P to be a book where most people go 'Wow!' when they see what their fleet can do - and then feel dread when they see what others are capable of

We are not looking at any kind of balance or paradigm shift for the fleets with P&P, just new options that should (hopefully) promote some new tactics.

Does this include the Dilgar? They need some love.

 

[Da Boss]

hmm give them a Sekhmet and some Delegor :wink:

 

[Tolwyn]

Mhm, IMO the Dilgar are strong enough.
Some Targrath and a Jashakar Scout + a carrier are nothing you want to fight against

 

[Poi]

Exactly why they need some love. Effective Dilgar fleets all look the same.

They don't need a buff across the board, but some hulls do need some improvement, or they'll never get used.

 

[katadder]

depends if you want a slow tough fleet or a fast nimble one. me I would play either as the dilgar can do both very well.
one thing that is always there though is the carrier.