AT-43 minis pictures.
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JoseDominguez
Mongoose
Galatea said:JoseDominguez said:yeah, having models outside of their armour is completely unrealistic.
Sci fi should be completely believeable with things like giant space cockroaches that fly through hyperspace and act as troop carriers
Well, that's no comparison. Even today nature is doing almost anything better than human science can do. Dogs smell better than any sensor and Bumblebees fly more effective than any plan ever could (actually even today no one can surely say HOW they fly as they're wings seem to be far to small to lift them into the air).
So a giant space cockroach with a biological warp drive flying at parsec speed isn't even THAT absurd as it looks on first glance.
A bee gains extra lift by generating a vortex effect, similar to the way sharks move so rapidly, 'we don't know how bees fly' is actually a common misconception (same as goldfish having a 12 second memory etc..).
You can't compare natures's achievements in this case, for example: think of one organism capable of existing in space, never mind thriving, it's a massivel leap, the movement from water to land was a slow process with gradual evolution, creatures began to spend more and more time on land, gills developed into lungs, but to move into space? If you aren't fully ready for it, you die instantly, no chance to evolve.As for sensors, we have chem sensors that can outperform dogs and pick up ppm amounts of specific chemicals.
So, surviving a vacuum, absolute zero temperature, unfiltered solar radiation etc.. etc... etc.... it's a lot more far fetched than 'her armour isn't very good, that's not realistic'
Oh, and bees fly because they are very, very tiny (and they don't fly well, fly's and wasps are much better)... upscale a bee to the size of a labrador and it would instantly die, the respiratory system of an insect is really simple, air travels down spiracles directly into the cells, this system only works over a small distance, it's why bugs can only get so big and evolution had to find another way.
funny you should say that.
they have found fosalised remains of insects upto 6 foot long ? sorta throws that theory of your out !!!
also some insects are able to survive the vacume of space and exists ! the (as the british refer to it) daddy long leg can survive in a total vacume, they require no air or food, but they only live a limeted time. in an exsperiment conducted the daddy long leg lived as long in the vacume as its fellow daddy long leg did in a normal tank with an air flow.
they have found fosalised remains of insects upto 6 foot long ? sorta throws that theory of your out !!!
also some insects are able to survive the vacume of space and exists ! the (as the british refer to it) daddy long leg can survive in a total vacume, they require no air or food, but they only live a limeted time. in an exsperiment conducted the daddy long leg lived as long in the vacume as its fellow daddy long leg did in a normal tank with an air flow.
Well, I study biology (espacially evolution), so I know what I'm talking of.
Indeed, climate was less dry, warmer and the atmosphere was oxygene-richer in former times allowing insect to grow to giant beasts.
But even for life in space there is a gradual evolution possible. You simply fly higher and higher and higher - and then you are in space. Don't ask me what it gives you but gradual evolution is possible.
And for the smelling test: One drop of pheromon would be enough for an ant to circle the earth more than twice if you'd lay a track with it. That's at least competitive to the best sensors we have yet.
Although I have to say that the combination of the transport bug and the earth-born bugs seems a bit odd. If a species lives in space it would typically be entirely space-born.
(Hey, maybe we missed a thing and the transport bugs are the 'real' queens)
Indeed, climate was less dry, warmer and the atmosphere was oxygene-richer in former times allowing insect to grow to giant beasts.
But even for life in space there is a gradual evolution possible. You simply fly higher and higher and higher - and then you are in space. Don't ask me what it gives you but gradual evolution is possible.
And for the smelling test: One drop of pheromon would be enough for an ant to circle the earth more than twice if you'd lay a track with it. That's at least competitive to the best sensors we have yet.
Although I have to say that the combination of the transport bug and the earth-born bugs seems a bit odd. If a species lives in space it would typically be entirely space-born.
(Hey, maybe we missed a thing and the transport bugs are the 'real' queens
)JoseDominguez
Mongoose
The biggest ever insect (proved and accepted as an insect) was a dragonfly, its wingspan was about two feet, named meganuera or something similar. The Earth's oxygen content was around 22% when animals first colonised the land, it dropped sharply to around 10% and this halted the move of creatures (including insects) onto the land..... it's increased to our current concentration since. Which experiment concluded a daddy long-legs could live for any period of time in a vacuum (I'd love to see that one). The daddy long legs respires oxygen, once it's oxygen supply has run out, it dies.
As for insects getting to space by flying higher and higher: not true, insect flight is achieved using wings, wings rely on air resistance. Evolution requires natural selection, natural selection requires a reason. What's the reason for getting beyond the atmosphere? (Which requires a whole new way of respiring, some sort of thrust drive to defeat the lack of atmosphere, followed by a means of surviving absolute zero temps that could switch to thousands of degrees when not in a planet shadow.
So, a bug could fly as high as it wants, once it leaves the atmosphere it's back to square one, evolution needs to start again: think about it, space isn't just thinner air and higher up, it's a totally new environment, separated from the ground by miles. It's unlike any other evolutionary path anything has ever followed.
And it's true about insect respiration, their size is limited by their direct cellular gas exchange. It doesn't matter how much oxygen is in the atmosphere, a simple network of pipes can only shift gas so far before you require a central system and a pump. At that point you've evolved beyond being an insect.
Anyway, who said the bugs were insects? It even states in the book they are just called that as they reminded us of them.
Not trying to argue, it's just that it's often my favourite game/book and the subject I teach are ever together in the same discussion So I enjoy it when it happens.
As for insects getting to space by flying higher and higher: not true, insect flight is achieved using wings, wings rely on air resistance. Evolution requires natural selection, natural selection requires a reason. What's the reason for getting beyond the atmosphere? (Which requires a whole new way of respiring, some sort of thrust drive to defeat the lack of atmosphere, followed by a means of surviving absolute zero temps that could switch to thousands of degrees when not in a planet shadow.
So, a bug could fly as high as it wants, once it leaves the atmosphere it's back to square one, evolution needs to start again: think about it, space isn't just thinner air and higher up, it's a totally new environment, separated from the ground by miles. It's unlike any other evolutionary path anything has ever followed.
And it's true about insect respiration, their size is limited by their direct cellular gas exchange. It doesn't matter how much oxygen is in the atmosphere, a simple network of pipes can only shift gas so far before you require a central system and a pump. At that point you've evolved beyond being an insect.
Anyway, who said the bugs were insects? It even states in the book they are just called that as they reminded us of them.
Not trying to argue, it's just that it's often my favourite game/book and the subject I teach are ever together in the same discussion
So I enjoy it when it happens.Well it might be possible for a DNA-based lifeform to live in space.
Less air resistance:
Could be countered by light gases like Hydrogen. Hydrogen production isn't such a great thing, bacteria could do this from the air's water.
Thrust:
Could be achieved by spiting out gases or liquids.
Solar Radiation:
Could be countered by creating a magnetic field using ultraconductive nerves.
No Food:
You got Sunlight. You just need to get to the ground to grab new resources, then go up again, where you can grow in piece and no one can eat you.
Once you can fly further away you will probably learn to absorb hydrogen gas from gas giants and use it as an energy source.
Extreme temperatures:
Could be countered by heat-resistant sunblocking shields or pigments and the creatures letting themselves freeze to wake up again, when sun is back.
It's climbing Mount Improbable. Slowly but surely.
Would you ever had imagined a thing like humans if you looked at the RNA-world 3 Billion years in the past?
Well, the genes had their RNA-structure advanced to DNA, created their own vehicles to carry them into the future and have grown to a state where you actually can't even see them at all.
Like we humans still carry our own ocean in our lymph liquids, space bugs would probably carry their own homeworld or home solar system inside of them.
It's the same principle - carry your world inside of you and take it with you to other places - just pushed a little bit further.
But of course a silicium-based or crystalin species would have much better chances of flying through space because they don't have to breathe.
Less air resistance:
Could be countered by light gases like Hydrogen. Hydrogen production isn't such a great thing, bacteria could do this from the air's water.
Thrust:
Could be achieved by spiting out gases or liquids.
Solar Radiation:
Could be countered by creating a magnetic field using ultraconductive nerves.
No Food:
You got Sunlight. You just need to get to the ground to grab new resources, then go up again, where you can grow in piece and no one can eat you.
Once you can fly further away you will probably learn to absorb hydrogen gas from gas giants and use it as an energy source.
Extreme temperatures:
Could be countered by heat-resistant sunblocking shields or pigments and the creatures letting themselves freeze to wake up again, when sun is back.
It's climbing Mount Improbable. Slowly but surely.
Would you ever had imagined a thing like humans if you looked at the RNA-world 3 Billion years in the past?
Well, the genes had their RNA-structure advanced to DNA, created their own vehicles to carry them into the future and have grown to a state where you actually can't even see them at all.
Like we humans still carry our own ocean in our lymph liquids, space bugs would probably carry their own homeworld or home solar system inside of them.
It's the same principle - carry your world inside of you and take it with you to other places - just pushed a little bit further.
But of course a silicium-based or crystalin species would have much better chances of flying through space because they don't have to breathe.
JoseDominguez
Mongoose
Galatea said:Well it might be possible for a DNA-based lifeform to live in space.
Less air resistance:
Could be countered by light gases like Hydrogen. Hydrogen production isn't such a great thing, bacteria could do this from the air's water.
Thrust:
Could be achieved by spiting out gases or liquids.
Solar Radiation:
Could be countered by creating a magnetic field using ultraconductive nerves.
No Food:
You got Sunlight. You just need to get to the ground to grab new resources, then go up again, where you can grow in piece and no one can eat you.
Once you can fly further away you will probably learn to absorb hydrogen gas from gas giants and use it as an energy source.
Extreme temperatures:
Could be countered by heat-resistant sunblocking shields or pigments and the creatures letting themselves freeze to wake up again, when sun is back.
It's climbing Mount Improbable. Slowly but surely.
Would you ever had imagined a thing like humans if you looked at the RNA-world 3 Billion years in the past?
Well, the genes had their RNA-structure advanced to DNA, created their own vehicles to carry them into the future and have grown to a state where you actually can't even see them at all.
Like we humans still carry our own ocean in our lymph liquids, space bugs would probably carry their own homeworld or home solar system inside of them.
It's the same principle - carry your world inside of you and take it with you to other places - just pushed a little bit further.
But of course a silicium-based or crystalin species would have much better chances of flying through space because they don't have to breathe.[/quote
Still leaves you with the issue of: how could an organism's situation be so hostile that moving into space gives it some sort of advantage? There's no point. Evolution is gradual, that's how it works. Moving outside of an atmosphere is a monstrous leap (water to land was achieved a little at a time, to get into space you need to overcome vacuum, extreme heat, absolute zero cold and solar radiation all at once, whilst also being capable of flying to the limits of the atmosphere then switching to direct thrust).
As for silicon and crystaline species....... they'd be fine, then again, they live in Star Trek
In SST The bugs are different, transporter bugs didn't evolve, they were bred, so not that much different to our decision to build rockets to leave the atmosphere. Intelligent bugs bred what they needed, rather than built ships.
Well, if Bugs BREED things, it's completely another thing.
Then Bugs in fact 'construct' space craft.
They just use biological compounds instead of metal compounds. They have a plan how an organism could fly in space and breed it.
It's no more absurd than a man constructing a rocket and flying to the moon.
Maybe in former times Transport Bugs have been primitive and slow, but what we see today is the pinnacle of 'bug technology', even better than human ships.
In Babylon5 Shadows and Vorlons used biotech on their ships, so why shouldn't Bugs be able to do it?
It brings a lot of advantages to you (best may be self-repair).
p.s. Why are some organisms living in simmering acid lakes, oxygen-free habitats or deep in the Antarctic where it's cold and you have almost nothing to eat?
There's just one reason that justifies all resources ever put in evolution to survive there: they are the only one that can live there.
They have no competitors.
That's enough.
Then Bugs in fact 'construct' space craft.
They just use biological compounds instead of metal compounds. They have a plan how an organism could fly in space and breed it.
It's no more absurd than a man constructing a rocket and flying to the moon.
Maybe in former times Transport Bugs have been primitive and slow, but what we see today is the pinnacle of 'bug technology', even better than human ships.
In Babylon5 Shadows and Vorlons used biotech on their ships, so why shouldn't Bugs be able to do it?
It brings a lot of advantages to you (best may be self-repair).
p.s. Why are some organisms living in simmering acid lakes, oxygen-free habitats or deep in the Antarctic where it's cold and you have almost nothing to eat?
There's just one reason that justifies all resources ever put in evolution to survive there: they are the only one that can live there.
They have no competitors.
That's enough.
JoseDominguez
Mongoose
Same problem though, moving into a simmering acid lake, arctic temp etc.. can be done in small steps... ph decreases in steps, temperature drops gradually and evolution copes with reduced food, moving beyond an atmosphere suddenly introduces a massive change and huge fluctuation. THe reason creatures live in the cold of the arctic is nutrient levels, the warm seas have relatively little in the way of biomass. No competition? Ask the whales etc.. that travel to the arctic for it's reach feeding grounds. The place is swarming with food. The atmosphere is a buffer that minimises temp range etc... Once you go past it, things change instantly, you can't 'gradually evolve' to compensate for that. Not saying it's not possible, maybe somewhere in the void a planet has life with no atmosphere (maybe it evolved in the soil) now those organisms could evolve to colonise space, they don't have that huge jump to contend with. Look at it this way, the atmosphere is a massive barrier to creature that wants to colonise space.... if you have no way of entering an environment, you won't evolve to survive in it.
Remember, evolution is random, lucky mutations lead to a minor advantage that concentrates certain point mutations within a species, that leads to mutations that become part of a genotype. What lucky mutation will permit a creature to move from atmosphere to no atmosphere? It's not like developing new wings to get higher or having a lighter body. It's a totally new means of propulsion. And where would the advantage lie? There are no predators at 30,000 feet and no food at the limits of the atmosphere, so, as there's no competition for room at altitude, why would anything ever need to go higher?
Unless we have an albatross population explosion and the you can't move for the buggers.
And transport bugs are made up So they can do what they want, in fact, maybe it's magic.
I like the bugs and the background, my point was that complaining about a model because it's armour wasn't realistic pales into comparison before the fictional creatures we accept without question.
I love all of it.
Remember, evolution is random, lucky mutations lead to a minor advantage that concentrates certain point mutations within a species, that leads to mutations that become part of a genotype. What lucky mutation will permit a creature to move from atmosphere to no atmosphere? It's not like developing new wings to get higher or having a lighter body. It's a totally new means of propulsion. And where would the advantage lie? There are no predators at 30,000 feet and no food at the limits of the atmosphere, so, as there's no competition for room at altitude, why would anything ever need to go higher?
Unless we have an albatross population explosion and the you can't move for the buggers.
And transport bugs are made up
So they can do what they want, in fact, maybe it's magic.I like the bugs and the background, my point was that complaining about a model because it's armour wasn't realistic pales into comparison before the fictional creatures we accept without question.
I love all of it.
I didn't mean the Arctic Sea I meant the Antarctic Continent Surface.
There is life. Not a lot, but there is.
And for the gradual evolution: It is not a single step from atmosphere to no atmosphere. There is no barrier "atmosphere ends here" or "space begins here".
It's a gradual change in environmental parameters (less air, getting colder etc).
If some kind of plant manages it to get that high (algae live in the most hostile environments of this planet) probably by electrolytic production of Hydrogen gas - well there are no predators. That's a reason to be there.
Of course predators will follow and soon we have a new ecosystem at the rim of the planets atmosphere.
Plants get under pressure and will continue their move away from the planet, predators and parasites will follow again.
And well, then we are in space. May have taken a few million years, but we are in space.
Of course this is much easer on low gravity planets.
But in the case of the Bugs this whole discussion is senseless.
They breed their species. They have an idea what they are meant to do and how that can be achieved.
They plan and build their transports like humans build space craft.
Gradual evolution is not necessary here.
They have an idea like "we can change the Transports exodermis in that way to make it vacuum- and heat-resistant", then they breed it and test it.
They do exactly the same like human engineers, they just use another form of technology - Biotech if you want so.
A Transport Bug hasn't evolved it has been constructed.
So Bugs in fact seem to know something about mathematics and interstellar travel.
Only in arts they show a real lack of good taste :wink:
There is life. Not a lot, but there is.
And for the gradual evolution: It is not a single step from atmosphere to no atmosphere. There is no barrier "atmosphere ends here" or "space begins here".
It's a gradual change in environmental parameters (less air, getting colder etc).
If some kind of plant manages it to get that high (algae live in the most hostile environments of this planet) probably by electrolytic production of Hydrogen gas - well there are no predators. That's a reason to be there.
Of course predators will follow and soon we have a new ecosystem at the rim of the planets atmosphere.
Plants get under pressure and will continue their move away from the planet, predators and parasites will follow again.
And well, then we are in space. May have taken a few million years, but we are in space.
Of course this is much easer on low gravity planets.
But in the case of the Bugs this whole discussion is senseless.
They breed their species. They have an idea what they are meant to do and how that can be achieved.
They plan and build their transports like humans build space craft.
Gradual evolution is not necessary here.
They have an idea like "we can change the Transports exodermis in that way to make it vacuum- and heat-resistant", then they breed it and test it.
They do exactly the same like human engineers, they just use another form of technology - Biotech if you want so.
A Transport Bug hasn't evolved it has been constructed.
So Bugs in fact seem to know something about mathematics and interstellar travel.
Only in arts they show a real lack of good taste :wink:
Stratos said:
I look at the "mouth on a tripod" and can't seem to shake the image of a junkyard dog yipping at the other side :lol: . It also reminds me a bit of the Graboids w/legs from the second movie. Cute, but dangerous. Nice doggy. Here's a treat! (tosses grenade at the beastie's mouth). :roll:
Hiromoon, nice pics. Got any more? :wink:
dyssnowman
Mongoose
The thing with the chick on the front is called an overseer (aka sniper bait) and the other thing (affectionately called the dog's butt) is the same alien race and is a combat strider. If you look in the center of the "butt", you can actually see a head sticking out.
Just thought I would share.
Just thought I would share.
