The avalanche has already started......

[lastbesthope]

Ok,

This thread follows on from my previous one entitiled

And so it begins......

Which ended on the cliffhanger of me having basecoated my Hawkwood minis in black.

Now it's time to start the proper painting.

Apologies for the noob questions, but as anyone who knows my rep knows, I have NEVER applied paint to a mini before.

Here's my supply status:

Brushes:
Various, from cheap and nasty via GW to artists sable brushes

Paint:
GW only, 12ml pots of:
Blood Red
Sunburst Yellow
Goblin Green*
Snakebite Leather*
Bronzed Flesh* (discontinued I believe)
Chaos Black
Skull White
Mithril Silver
Enchanted Blue
Catachan Green*
Kommando Khaki
Fortress Grey
Codex Grey
Boltgun Metal

*If it has a star next to it, I'm not thinking it has a place in my colour scheme, but list it for completeness

I also have some small starter set pots of Blood Red, Sunburst Yellow, Goblin Green*, Skull White, Boltgun Metal and Ultramarine Blue (More can be bought if I decide to use this colour, I'll have time since if I can get the frey bits done this week I'll be doing better than I think.

At the moment I'm thinking the main hull colour will be Codex or Fortress Grey, I considedred Khaki but it looks a bit too green, and using ENchanted Blue for the trim lines, engines and weapons to be picked out in Boltgun Metal.

If anyone has any other GW colour suggestions for a grey/blue colour scheme please chime in, GW is pretty much my only locally available paint.

So aesthetic advice is welcome, as is advice on the technique and logistics side of it, see my questions below.

Technique questions:

1) Doing the base grey coat, from what I've read I should try and drybrush this on, or should I just paint it and see if I want to accent the hull plate lines later either with a wash or a detail brush?

2) Holding the mini: Unlike figures which have feet, do you just have to accpt that you can only paint most of the mini at a time as you have to leave a dry spot for it to stand on

3) Highlighting: Any hints, obviously flat grey won;t be too bad, but what is the knack to adding highlights, where do you do it? What colours should I use? Do you highlight each hull plate or just the hull in general? All help and hints here would be useful.

4) Paint: How much to transfer to the 'palette' at a time for use. What tool to transfer it with, I've had some advice on this in previous threads but always welcome more or even reminders

5) Thinning: How much water to add to how much paint for thinning after storage and indeed for application?

6) How long should I leave between coats, I'll be working insnide now since I'm not spraying so that's better.

7) What order to do the colours in? I'm thinking grey base first, then the blue bits blue and the metal bits metal.

Thanks to everyone for their help, advice, encouragement and support thus far, I'm hoping that while my minis won't look totally awesome first time out I'll at least be satisfied that I finally painted some myself.

Thanks

LBH

 

[lastbesthope]

BEen thinking about the colour scheme, thinking Fortress Grey for the main hull plates, Codex Grey for the 'pipework' (sort of like the Rebel Transports coming off Hoth in ESB) and boltgun metal for the engines. Blue trim to be added to the hull dependent on model.

As for the 'trench' on the top of the Vladimir, not sure whether to go Codex or Boltgun for that. Same dilemma for the underside detail on the Malcolm. Recommendations?

LBH

 

[Captain Jonah]

Ok,

2) Holding the mini: Unlike figures which have feet, do you just have to accpt that you can only paint most of the mini at a time as you have to leave a dry spot for it to stand on

LBH

Use some painting bases or make a little frame to hold some pins. Use a couple of normal flying bases if the ship has them and use a tiny ball of the green stationary stuff that stays sticky. Pop it in the flyingbase hole and use it to hold the base leg in place. As long as you are carefull not to push too hard on the ship it normaly holds ok.
Be carefull to clear all the green stuff out afterwards or it will make the glue go funny when you put the flying base on at the end.

For the ships with no flying bases try a little hole in the bottom and use some fine modeling wire as a temp flying base. Since this is on the underside it shouldn't show on the final ship.

 

[Stormrider]

I should have my 2 new fleet probably before the end of the week and my plan is (though bear it mind it might be flawed!)...

1) clean up the models
2) spray undercoat
3) fix to flying bases
4) paint

All this requires is a steady enough hand to not paint the flying base and you have a nice easy way to hold the model, though in fairness, I really don't see a problem with having black undercoated bases either... Might have to think on that...

 

[H]

BEen thinking about the colour scheme, thinking Fortress Grey for the main hull plates, Codex Grey for the 'pipework' (sort of like the Rebel Transports coming off Hoth in ESB) and boltgun metal for the engines. Blue trim to be added to the hull dependent on model.

As for the 'trench' on the top of the Vladimir, not sure whether to go Codex or Boltgun for that. Same dilemma for the underside detail on the Malcolm. Recommendations?

LBH

sounds quite good there, regarding the tranch, depends whether you want a shiny trench really ;-)
I think the codex would be more subdued, but the boltgun "could" be quite striking.

 

[lastbesthope]

I should have my 2 new fleet probably before the end of the week and my plan is (though bear it mind it might be flawed!)...

1) clean up the models
2) spray undercoat
3) fix to flying bases
4) paint

All this requires is a steady enough hand to not paint the flying base and you have a nice easy way to hold the model, though in fairness, I really don't see a problem with having black undercoated bases either... Might have to think on that...

Sounds good to me, though I'm fully painting my minis before seal coat and basing them , leaving the bases clear.

LBH

 

[lastbesthope]

BEen thinking about the colour scheme, thinking Fortress Grey for the main hull plates, Codex Grey for the 'pipework' (sort of like the Rebel Transports coming off Hoth in ESB) and boltgun metal for the engines. Blue trim to be added to the hull dependent on model.

As for the 'trench' on the top of the Vladimir, not sure whether to go Codex or Boltgun for that. Same dilemma for the underside detail on the Malcolm. Recommendations?

LBH

sounds quite good there, regarding the tranch, depends whether you want a shiny trench really ;-)
I think the codex would be more subdued, but the boltgun "could" be quite striking.

YEah, my original plan was to do all the pipework stuff in Boltgun, vbbut then the engine nozzles wouldn't stand out.

I'm thinking base colour will be Fortress Grey, pipework either in Chaos Black or Codex Grey, "go faster" panels in blue, turrets and engine nozzles in metallic. I'm tempted to perhaps go Mithril Silver rather than Boltgun for the metallic stuff.

Either way, it's time to start putting some Fortress Grey on the models, perhaps leaving the bits I want to do in Codex or Chaos alone with that.

I'm thinking blue the smooth panels on the underside of Malcolm, Codex or Chaos for the 'detailed' bits and pick out fine points in metallic.

Vladimir trench in Codex I think, as with the piework, again engine nozzles and details and turrets in metallic (Mithril or Boltgun)

A metallic trench on the Vlad "could" look good, but given the depth of the trench and hence the shadows I'm not sure it'll show much, Codex seems a safe bet.

LBH

 

[lastbesthope]

As for colurs, I've been looking and apart from Fortress and Codex all the greys seem to be too pink, blue or green tinted for my taste.

Space Wolf Grey and Shadow Grey are blue for heaven's sake!!!

I'm thinking ENchanted Blue might not be the one to use for the blueing, colours in contention include Shadow Grey, Space Wolf Grey, Ultramarine Blue, Ice Blue, Regal Blue, anything that's a Blue, even if it is called Grey

Any hints or suggestions given it will be contrasting to Fortress Grey?

Thanks

LBH

 

[Rick]

Use Regal blue as a base and just highlight using enchanted blue - I agree with you that enchanted blue on it's own is too light! I use Space Wolf grey sometimes as an alternative to Fortress grey when I want to put white over the top of it, it gives a nice contrast, Fortress grey has a little bit too much brown in it.

 

[lastbesthope]

Thanks Rick,

I can't really see the brown in Fortress, but then one of the other few colours I have is Kommando Khaki, which is definitely brown.

I spent a little time tonight reading the painting guide at the backof the old B5 ACTA EA-Minbari War supplement, where it walks you through painting an EA Hyperion and a Minbari Neshatan.

The EA Hyperion is more like the Hawkwood fleet in design and colouring so I paid more attention there. The NEshatan is quite a textured ship mini

The main gist of the Hyperion paint job was

1) BAse coat Black
2) Paint the 'to be white' bots dark grey
3) PAint those bits light grey, leaving the edges and recesses in the darker grey
4) Highlight them in white
5) Blue and metallic details and highlighting

So I have done 1, if I do 2 and 3 with Codex and Fortress Grey respectively, and then optionally step 4, it'll take me a bit longer, but will give me a more layered approach than one coat of Fortress Grey, not as good as proper highlighting, but better than just one coat of Fortress, no?
Even if I skip the white stage, as I think that would be too light, it should give a better more layered look than one coat of Fortress

And it also suggested doing the metal bits in dark metal and highlighting them in light metal, so I could do the turrets in Boltgun and then do the barrels in Mithril that should look nice.

Still thinking to do the 'Vladimir trench'and other pipework in Codex, to contrast the Fortress hull and the metallic bits.

As for blues, I'll see what I like the look of in the shop when comparing to the greys I have.

I'm also considering doing the fighters in white or metal and blue rather than grey to give them a bit more 'pop' on the table given their small size. Comments?

Thanks for the advice guys, it is appreciated muchly...

LBH

 

[Rick]

A layered approach to painting is much, much better than just using the basic colours - it gives the model more 'depth' and makes it look like a real ship rather than a model. If you think that you want a surface colour other than flat white - try Codex Grey then either a mix of white and fortress grey (for a lighter grey/white look), or put a step in between with a mix of Codex and fortress grey?

 

[lastbesthope]

Thanks Rick,

I'm not sure how much of a layering effect I'll be able to manage, but going to try Codex then Fortress and see how that looks.

Can;t look any worse than just going straight to Fortress after all.

Not ssure about mixing as I won't be able to get the whole fleet done in one sitting and then colour matching becomes an issue, but we'll see.

I have a tub each of Skull White, Fortress and Codex so that should be enough to get started.

Min target for this weekend is to get the Codex coat on all ships, stretch goal is to get the Fortress done as well.

At the moment I'm touch up spraying some of the ships, and applying a basecoat to the replacement Malcolm I received yesterday. Should at least get the first coat done before the light fails.

LBH

 

[lastbesthope]

So dumb question, how much should I dilute the GW acrylics with water to get the right consistency for painting?

LBH

 

[Rick]

It's a very good question LBH - unfortunately there is no clear answer. It has to be thin enough not to 'blob' on the mini, but thick enough to cover - you really have to go by trial and error. try 50/50 to start with - if thats still a bit too thick, thin down further; too thin - add a little more paint to the mix.

Sorry if that's not the easy answer you needed, but it's the best I can do, I'm afraid.

 

[godsgopher]

Thinning Paints

Alright a lot of this comes down to personal preference and experience. However I will attempt to describe some rules of thumb.

Base Coat, this is the first primary coat of paint on the model, you want a smooth solid coverage from the base coat. However to avoid a rough finish your looking to lay down two to three coats of paint rather than one thick coat. To do this I add water to my paint in a 50/50 ratio.

Main Highlights, here all you are wanting to do is to cover the base coat with another smooth coat of paint, these colors are often further apart on the color wheel from the base coat, so again use the 50/50 mix or perhaps a little thinner if I'm dealing with a super dark color like black.

Lighter Highlights, alright here I go a little thinner preferring to build up additional highlights with increasingly thinner layers of paint. Yes this means it takes longer but I like the effect and I find I have better brush control working with less paint.

Juices and Washes; A wash is where you take one color, thin it down until you can see through it on the pallet and then wash the entire figure with the color. The idea here is to glaze the model to give a hint of color or to restore a color's brilliance that has gotten washed out, and or to darken a color that's gotten just a little too vibrant. A juice, which is a term another painter I once studied coined, is a wash, but is applied to a very limited area in super thin coats to preform just like a wash but with much greater control. The ratios for these are something like 10-20% paint to 90-80% water, super thin!

 

[lastbesthope]

Thanks guys.

One mre question before I set to this weekend.

Any ideas for what to use to support/hold the minis once I've painted one side to wait till it dries before painting the other side?

I figure at this stage it's time to get paint on the minis, any paint job is better than none.

Though I did wonder what it would look like if I applied blue or purple detailing to the hull from the black state they're in, maybe as an imperial guard or black ops squadron, but that's not what I'm going to do this time.

LBH

 

[lastbesthope]

OK, so I went to a local non GW gaming store today to pick up some extra shades of blue to give me some options when I get that far.

I opened the paints and noticed how runny they were compared to the old stuff I have.

The new stuff actually moves when I tilt the pot, the old stuff will not fall out of an upsdie down pot.

I therefore concluded that the older paint was so stale I couldn't be bothered recovering it and so bought myself an all new set of paint to use this weekend. no need to make my first painting attempt any harder than it needs to be, eh?

So my new paint stocks are:

Paint:
GW only, 12ml pots of:
Gore Red(Liked the shade of this better than Blood Red)
Sunburst Yellow
Chaos Black
Skull White
Mithril Silver
Boltgun Metal
Chainmail (Not sure which of the three emtallics I'll use)
Enchanted Blue
Regal Blue
UltraMarine Blue
Fortress Grey
Codex Grey

The eagle eyed amongst yuo will notice I didn't replace all the colours I had, simply bought the ones I expect to use for my Hawkwood fleet, with the yellow and red as stand by for detailing/engine exhaust colouring.

Really is time to start putting paint to minis with a brish now.

Having bought the new paint I can now actually envisage it being applied to a mini, the old stuff was so thick PVA glue would have been easier to apply with a brush. Mind you the old stuff was at least 2 and possibly more like 4 years old.

LBH

 

[Stormrider]

I made the move from GW paints to Vallejo a few years back and never regretted it. I bought the large case of paints which wasn't cheap but dab for dab Vallejo is cheaper than GW and I find easier to work with. You might find them worth a look, you can usually find an "any 8 pots for £x" on eBay offer or the like.

 

[lastbesthope]

I prefer to buy from bricks and mortar stores rather thasn the internet, but thanks for the advice.

I did find a new (to me, been there 8 months) wargaming store in Bristol yesterday, which is where I bought most of the new paint.

Really need to bite the bullet and start on the Codex grey coat this morning.

LBH

 

[lastbesthope]

Got a first coat of dark grey on the 'little' ships.

Not sure whether to do a second coat of dark grey or move on to the light grey? Suggestions? Advice please?

LBH