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Armor Issues & House-Rules
- Thread starter Golan2072
- Start date
Darn. Don't have CSC yet! So how much are the toilets (ok maybe just the seats)? :lol:Treebore said:...another case of over priced toilets and hammers...
BP said:Darn. Don't have CSC yet! So how much are the toilets (ok maybe just the seats)? :lol:Treebore said:...another case of over priced toilets and hammers...
They weren't $75,000.00.
Moving away from battledress for a moment:
Given the damage of a broadsword (which I take to be a two-handed affair) at 4d6, anybody else think that full plate armor at Armor 3 is a little weak?
I mean 4d6 is capable of 20+ points of damage...is plate armor really so ineffective against a sword?
Nevermind, it's apparently Protection 6 in CSC. Where did I see Protection 3 plate armor???
Given the damage of a broadsword (which I take to be a two-handed affair) at 4d6, anybody else think that full plate armor at Armor 3 is a little weak?
I mean 4d6 is capable of 20+ points of damage...is plate armor really so ineffective against a sword?
Nevermind, it's apparently Protection 6 in CSC. Where did I see Protection 3 plate armor???
justacaveman
Mongoose
A Broadsword has an average damage of 14 points + Effect with a possible 24 points + Effect (Max 30 pts).
Plate Armour (The best pre-industial armor there is.) stops a whole 6 pts of melee damage (Against bullets it only stops 3 pts.) Seems a little weak to me (The bullet protection might actually be generous.).
There was a reason that guys in armour ruled the battlefield before the invention of gunpowder, and the armour rules don't seem to reflect this.
Plate Armour (The best pre-industial armor there is.) stops a whole 6 pts of melee damage (Against bullets it only stops 3 pts.) Seems a little weak to me (The bullet protection might actually be generous.).
There was a reason that guys in armour ruled the battlefield before the invention of gunpowder, and the armour rules don't seem to reflect this.
Here's a situation where I wish the protection was broken down into categories. Low Impact, High Impact, and Energy work well for Alternity. I'd probably do Bludgeon, Edged, Piercing, and Energy, but that get's ridiculous to deal with in play.
Regardless, full plate ought to offer Protection 10 or 12 against low TL melee weapons...
Remember, however, that the "broadsword" in MGT is actually a zweihander/greatsword, which were VERY good at taking down dudes in armor.
According to CSC, the typical "sword" is 3d6+Str+Effect. Average damage there is 11-14 with typical Effect. Hmmm...still seems quite weak, doesn't it?
Regardless, full plate ought to offer Protection 10 or 12 against low TL melee weapons...
Remember, however, that the "broadsword" in MGT is actually a zweihander/greatsword, which were VERY good at taking down dudes in armor.
According to CSC, the typical "sword" is 3d6+Str+Effect. Average damage there is 11-14 with typical Effect. Hmmm...still seems quite weak, doesn't it?
justacaveman
Mongoose
I was thinking that all the armour seems to be shortchanged by about 50%.
My solution has focused on the damage that gets through the armour. I reduce the damage by converting an amount equal to the armour rating to persistant stun damage. Subseqent damage overwrites the stun damage, with stun points being converted to normal damage if overwritten by another stun point. These points are recovered at a rate of 1 per hour.
Example: The target is wearing armour with a rating of 6, and has 9 in all Attributes. Target takes 15 points of damage. The armour stops 6 points outright, leaving 9 points of damage. Of the 9 points left, 3 are normal damage and 6 are converted to stun. If the target takes another 15 point hit, the 3 points of regular damage would overwrite the first 3 points of stun (leaving 3 stun), the first 3 points of stun damage overwrites the remaining 3 stun converting them to regular damage. This reduces the target's endurance to 0, and the target's player may assign the the last 3 stun points to either DEX or STR as normal. Any subsequent hits would be assigned by the target's player as normal. The player just needs to keep track of where the regular and stun damage are.
I find that this method makes the armour more effective, yet is simple and easy to implement. And it does it without affecting weapon damage against unarmoured characters.
My solution has focused on the damage that gets through the armour. I reduce the damage by converting an amount equal to the armour rating to persistant stun damage. Subseqent damage overwrites the stun damage, with stun points being converted to normal damage if overwritten by another stun point. These points are recovered at a rate of 1 per hour.
Example: The target is wearing armour with a rating of 6, and has 9 in all Attributes. Target takes 15 points of damage. The armour stops 6 points outright, leaving 9 points of damage. Of the 9 points left, 3 are normal damage and 6 are converted to stun. If the target takes another 15 point hit, the 3 points of regular damage would overwrite the first 3 points of stun (leaving 3 stun), the first 3 points of stun damage overwrites the remaining 3 stun converting them to regular damage. This reduces the target's endurance to 0, and the target's player may assign the the last 3 stun points to either DEX or STR as normal. Any subsequent hits would be assigned by the target's player as normal. The player just needs to keep track of where the regular and stun damage are.
I find that this method makes the armour more effective, yet is simple and easy to implement. And it does it without affecting weapon damage against unarmoured characters.
That's a pretty good fix. It effectively doubles Protection though. Seems like Combat Armor becomes really good! OTOH, it makes the AP rules from CSC even more useful. Take basic Combat armor with Prot 12. Against standard rifle fire, it will completely stop 11 damage and convert 11 more to Stun. You'll really need to wear guys down using that rule. However, if you use DSAP rounds granting Super-AP, then suddenly the armor stops 6 damage completely and 6 more is stun. Very effective. I'll have to see how it plays out. Have you playtested this mechanic?
justacaveman
Mongoose
Yes I have playtested it. Against the higher levels of armour, armour-piercing ammo is required if you want to do significant damage. I do give the AP property to Lasers and High-Energy weapons.
Armour is supposed to provide good protection to the wearer, otherwise why bother wearing it.
There's a video of a soldier taking a sniper hit in the center of his chest and getting up moments later because he was wearing body armour. He would have been quite dead without it, yet was able to keep fighting after taking no serious damage.
Armour is supposed to provide good protection to the wearer, otherwise why bother wearing it.
There's a video of a soldier taking a sniper hit in the center of his chest and getting up moments later because he was wearing body armour. He would have been quite dead without it, yet was able to keep fighting after taking no serious damage.
justacaveman
Mongoose
The 1 hour per point recovery rate is entirely arbitrary. I wanted to have some lasting effects from the combat in order to encourage caution from the PCs. The mechanic will usually produce unconscious rather than dead charac ters. This will result in more prisoners rather than corpses, allowing more roleplaying opportunities.
justacaveman
Mongoose
While the stun points are still in effect, I treat them as real damage as far as penalies go. This includes unconciousness etc..
Ok - that sounds good - though more record keeping...
So basically you have a double damage system - non-serious short term injury (stun) which might include shock, etc. that one recoops from within a day (assuming no 24+ armour) - and regular injuries that generally heal more slowly (without drugs, aid, etc.).
Since these are not long term injuries, I assume medical treatment doesn't apply... which brings to mind - level of activity might should have an effect on stun point recovery rate?
Also, if stun points exceed the characters actual remaining stat points - any special considerations?
So basically you have a double damage system - non-serious short term injury (stun) which might include shock, etc. that one recoops from within a day (assuming no 24+ armour) - and regular injuries that generally heal more slowly (without drugs, aid, etc.).
Since these are not long term injuries, I assume medical treatment doesn't apply... which brings to mind - level of activity might should have an effect on stun point recovery rate?
Also, if stun points exceed the characters actual remaining stat points - any special considerations?
justacaveman
Mongoose
Right, the recovery rate assumes low activity. Get into some combat etc. and that hour doesn't count.
If the stun points exceed the total of all the character's attributes (similar to normal damage), I put the character into a coma and the recovery rate becomes 1 + END bonus per day (This requires some aid from other PCs, such as fluids, bedpans etc..) A negative bonus requires medical treatment to recover (+1 point per skill level, which also will help characters with a bonus of 0 or greater.).
Note: Real damage stacks with stun damage when you're trying to determine effects.
If the stun points exceed the total of all the character's attributes (similar to normal damage), I put the character into a coma and the recovery rate becomes 1 + END bonus per day (This requires some aid from other PCs, such as fluids, bedpans etc..) A negative bonus requires medical treatment to recover (+1 point per skill level, which also will help characters with a bonus of 0 or greater.).
Note: Real damage stacks with stun damage when you're trying to determine effects.
justacaveman
Mongoose
Another house rule I have, is that I don't roll damage dice. Each weapon has a set damage equal to average roll (3.5 x number of damage dice) + Effect + other bonuses. This narrows the damage range and simpifies the combat. It also makes my armour rules work better.
Example: The normal damage range for a Gauss rifle is 4-24 + Effect + Burst bonus (If Fired in Burst mode), for range of 4-34 points of damage. Having a set value narrows the damage range to 14-24 points of damage. This keeps the armour values from being too weak or too strong (In my opinion.). The narrower range seems to prevent the combat from being slowed by bad damage rolls, while reducing 1 shot kills. If double 6s are rolled I give a damage bonus equal to 1 point per damage die.
Example: The normal damage range for a Gauss rifle is 4-24 + Effect + Burst bonus (If Fired in Burst mode), for range of 4-34 points of damage. Having a set value narrows the damage range to 14-24 points of damage. This keeps the armour values from being too weak or too strong (In my opinion.). The narrower range seems to prevent the combat from being slowed by bad damage rolls, while reducing 1 shot kills. If double 6s are rolled I give a damage bonus equal to 1 point per damage die.
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