Armageddon Ships
- Thread starter arbaily
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Right Hand of God
Mongoose
As long as 2nd Ed has a longer shelf life than Armageddon did then fine
Right Hand of God
Mongoose
12 months? That's not that long really is it, that would mean that if 2nd ed is released on time in August, by November the forum will be full of the next new release rules and fleet updates. I don't think a year is long enough at all. Ok fine release a fleet update list every year but to keep changing the game is just going to drive players away isn't it?
It smacks of GW-ism to me too. We bought Armageddon but don't get the majority of the ships released before the rules are out of date noe we shell out £30-£35 for rules and fleet books that will last a year?
I know they have to make a profit but that's rediculous
It smacks of GW-ism to me too. We bought Armageddon but don't get the majority of the ships released before the rules are out of date noe we shell out £30-£35 for rules and fleet books that will last a year?
I know they have to make a profit but that's rediculous
emperorpenguin
Mongoose
it won't be a rules update as Hiff said, more like optional rules and campaign ideas.
Besides after playtesting 2nd ed for over a year now I think I'd strangle anyone who suggested a 3rd ed!
Besides after playtesting 2nd ed for over a year now I think I'd strangle anyone who suggested a 3rd ed!
Yeah, I can't see a "3rd ed." coming for at least three years (bear in mind, this is a) only my opinion and b) it is only a minimum, not a guess when it will come).
Preliminary plans are already afoot for next year's supplement (ideas stage only) and there's a huge amount of scope to expand the game before redesigning it again
I think everyone could do with a good, long break first though and let 2nd ed. bed in before we even contemplate anything meaningful for a future supplement (which is what's happening).
Preliminary plans are already afoot for next year's supplement (ideas stage only) and there's a huge amount of scope to expand the game before redesigning it again
I think everyone could do with a good, long break first though and let 2nd ed. bed in before we even contemplate anything meaningful for a future supplement (which is what's happening).Part of the issue with Arm. was it was touted as a really 'fix' for what were major rules issues. It turned out to be a lot of tweaks and re-organizations, with only a few truly new rules.
EA - a re-org that was spoiled by the Sag and Warlock reworks
Vorlons and Shadows - nothing really new here...oh stuff moved quite a bit, and the vorlons got the em pulse thing...but basically the fleets maintained their character and just slid up a level. You really needed new designs (at least one each) to get folks excited.
Fighters - going back to the old idea...again, nothing new, just a larger re-org
Errata/etc - eh...
New ships and pl level - cool and truly new but not worth a hardcover...either price tag or lugging around.
Just saying they would have been better off doing as suggested and s&ping some of the stuff and going with a smaller paperback for the rest. Would have felt closer to getting the value. It almost felt like they were being forced into the hardback by the business plan rather than by the merits of what they had to print at the time.
Ripple
EA - a re-org that was spoiled by the Sag and Warlock reworks
Vorlons and Shadows - nothing really new here...oh stuff moved quite a bit, and the vorlons got the em pulse thing...but basically the fleets maintained their character and just slid up a level. You really needed new designs (at least one each) to get folks excited.
Fighters - going back to the old idea...again, nothing new, just a larger re-org
Errata/etc - eh...
New ships and pl level - cool and truly new but not worth a hardcover...either price tag or lugging around.
Just saying they would have been better off doing as suggested and s&ping some of the stuff and going with a smaller paperback for the rest. Would have felt closer to getting the value. It almost felt like they were being forced into the hardback by the business plan rather than by the merits of what they had to print at the time.
Ripple
Celisasu
Mongoose
New Stealth Rules: Yes, we used them.
Split EA lists: If you aren't an EA player this was worthless(I don't play EA) and took up a huge chunk of the book(37 out of 96 pages). This gave us the new Sagg too. I should note we had another 11 pages of just pictures after this meaning 48 out of 96 pages were commited to stuff of absolutely no value to someone who doesn't play EA.
Revised White Star: Could've been in S&P just like they had to do with the Sagg after it's Armageddon version broke the game far worse than the White Star did.
New Ships: We're still waiting on about a third of them. Including the two I wanted the most. Six more pages that were effectively a waste. Total wasted pages: 54 out of 96.
Raiders: You mean someone actually uses them? Still lets say this is useful.
Vorlon/Shadow Updates: Suddenly, people had a lot of ships that they couldn't use anymore due to their very high priority levels. I'll count it as useful in a "well I won't be facing them too often other than hit and run Vorlon Cruisers" sort of way.
And we have a 7 page FAQ for errors that were in previous suppliments we paid for. So 61 pages out of 96 that have no value(the FAQ should've been a free PDF). So a $25 book for 34 pages of stuff. Oh wait. Add another 8 pages for things such as advertisements and large pictures taking a whole page to say stuff like "Ancients". So I paid $25 plus tax for 26 pages worth of stuff. This increases to 63 pages if you play EA. So about a dollar per page unless you play EA.
So yes, I'm more than a little annoyed with the Armageddon fiasco.
Split EA lists: If you aren't an EA player this was worthless(I don't play EA) and took up a huge chunk of the book(37 out of 96 pages). This gave us the new Sagg too. I should note we had another 11 pages of just pictures after this meaning 48 out of 96 pages were commited to stuff of absolutely no value to someone who doesn't play EA.
Revised White Star: Could've been in S&P just like they had to do with the Sagg after it's Armageddon version broke the game far worse than the White Star did.
New Ships: We're still waiting on about a third of them. Including the two I wanted the most. Six more pages that were effectively a waste. Total wasted pages: 54 out of 96.
Raiders: You mean someone actually uses them? Still lets say this is useful.
Vorlon/Shadow Updates: Suddenly, people had a lot of ships that they couldn't use anymore due to their very high priority levels. I'll count it as useful in a "well I won't be facing them too often other than hit and run Vorlon Cruisers" sort of way.
And we have a 7 page FAQ for errors that were in previous suppliments we paid for. So 61 pages out of 96 that have no value(the FAQ should've been a free PDF). So a $25 book for 34 pages of stuff. Oh wait. Add another 8 pages for things such as advertisements and large pictures taking a whole page to say stuff like "Ancients". So I paid $25 plus tax for 26 pages worth of stuff. This increases to 63 pages if you play EA. So about a dollar per page unless you play EA.
So yes, I'm more than a little annoyed with the Armageddon fiasco.
Greg Smith
Mongoose
hiffano said:
It isn't that I'm just a fan. I (along with the other playtesters) put a lot of work in the game, for free. I respond badly to non-constructive criticism of my work.
If a book is 'worthless' because it includes data on a fleet you don't play, doesn't that apply to a whole lot of game books?
I know that Armageddon wasn't everything people hoped for and that Mongoose dropped the ball (to put it politely) on the big ships, but that doesn't invalidate the whole book.
emperorpenguin
Mongoose
the Mothership should have been Armageddon level certainly
yep, so if they had left drakh fleet until armageddon then the mothership could have been there and there wouldnt have been the complaints of no new stuff for the new fleet that had come out 4 months earlier.
admittedly there might have been complaints that the drakh were not out yet but then everyone could have been happy with armageddon and it could have been a bigger, better book without random filling in.
as for the book being more use to EA players, even they must have got fed up with the same ships being printed over and over again to increase the page count.
admittedly there might have been complaints that the drakh were not out yet but then everyone could have been happy with armageddon and it could have been a bigger, better book without random filling in.
as for the book being more use to EA players, even they must have got fed up with the same ships being printed over and over again to increase the page count.
Greg Smith
Mongoose
So if a player only plays one race, will the 2e fleet book be considered worthless, since there will only be around 10 pages of use to him?
I know we will get criticism for 2e, constructive and otherwise. It is the otherwise that I take issue with.
I know we will get criticism for 2e, constructive and otherwise. It is the otherwise that I take issue with.
Celisasu
Mongoose
The difference here of course being that the fleet book is just that, a fleet book that covers all the fleets. Armageddon was touted as this wonderful addition and instead had lots of stuff that was unnecessary. Even the EA fleet lists were just repeats of what was in SFOS for the most part. We had what? Six or seven new or modified ships? Nemesis, Warlock, Saggitarious, Marathon, Early years Avenger, and the Shadow Omega? Why'd it need 37 pages? Why not just a list of what each era got and then ship splats for the new or modified ships? It felt like it was just a way of padding it. The EA section only needed four pages. One for fleet lists, three for the new or varient ships.
The Drakh, Dilgar, and Earth/Minbari war flat out say what they are. If you buy one of them you know you're going to be seeing stuff commited soley to one(or two) fleets.
The Drakh, Dilgar, and Earth/Minbari war flat out say what they are. If you buy one of them you know you're going to be seeing stuff commited soley to one(or two) fleets.
