AP V DR

[Anonymous]

I am just getting back into roleplay and wanted to confirm the rules for Armour Piercing and Damage Reduction.

Example MK1 GP Round DMG 2d8 AP 4

Say the perps armour has DR of 6.

Judge Shots does 10 DMG, does the AP lower the DR to 2 reducing the DMG to 8 or as the AP hasn't exceeded the DR, the full DR is applied reducing the DMG to 4?

Also can anyone recommend any decent sites with plot ideas, scenarios, additional rules etc.

Any help would be gratefully received.[/b]

 

[Matt Sharp]

I am just getting back into roleplay and wanted to confirm the rules for Armour Piercing and Damage Reduction.

Example MK1 GP Round DMG 2d8 AP 4

Say the perps armour has DR of 6.

Judge Shots does 10 DMG, does the AP lower the DR to 2 reducing the DMG to 8 or as the AP hasn't exceeded the DR, the full DR is applied reducing the DMG to 4?

No, the weapon's Armour Piercing score has to equal or exceed the target's Damage Reduction score to have any effect, it doesn't reduce the effectivness of armour - in effect, armour is 'all or nothing'.

In your example, the damage infliced on the perp is reduced to 4, as the weapon's AP score is not the same or higher than the perp's DR score. However, if he were wearing pad armour (DR 4) he would take the full effect of the shot, as the GP round's AP score is equal to the DR score of the armour.

Hope that helps!

 

[Arabin]

Really? That's a shame. I was thinking that a perp equiped with a knife would have a higher chance of doing damage to a judge than one equiped with a club... but that is not the case if this is the way AP and DR works. The knife could never do any damage against a judge unless it was a critical hit. That seems a little odd...

Arabin

 

[hassanisabbah]

I apply it the other way, if DR is high than AP, it subtracts the difference form each damage roll

 

[Arabin]

Okay, I just re-read the book and this is how it actually works.

If a character is struck by a weapon whose AP equals or exceeds the DR of his armor, then any Damage Reduction provided by the armor is completely ignored, allowing the weapon to do it's full amount of damage.

If a weapon is listed as AP of 0, it will be affected by all Damage Reduction scores.

Therefore, in the case of the knife (1d6, AP 2) being used against a judge (Body Suit DR6) it would go like this.

Roll 1d6 gives us a 6.

The AP of 2 pierces the armor and so you take the AP from the DR giving you 4.

So the damage actually taken would be 2.

If you had a club, it does 1d8 damage but has an AP of 0 and so it has a smaller chance to do the same damage.

I hope that helps clear it up.

Arabin

 

[Matt Sharp]

Therefore, in the case of the knife (1d6, AP 2) being used against a judge (Body Suit DR6) it would go like this.

Roll 1d6 gives us a 6.

The AP of 2 pierces the armor and so you take the AP from the DR giving you 4.

So the damage actually taken would be 2.

If you had a club, it does 1d8 damage but has an AP of 0 and so it has a smaller chance to do the same damage.

I don't think that's what was intended...

It's Armour Piercing and not Armour Reduction. Remember also that a knife is almost the lowest of the low as far as weapons go - the perp really should take along something a bit more impressive if he's going to be attacking judges!

 

[BigSteveUK]

Cheers for the prompt reply guy's.

I can see the argument from both sides.

I want melee to be a tad more lethal, and in several situations in 2000ad various Judges armour have been penetrated by edged weapons, for example Judge Dredd would of chuckled at most of the stuff stan lee threw at him.

So I will probably go with the AP reducing the effectiveness of the Armour.

 

[Arabin]

Maybe a knife was a bad example as it sets your mind on damaging the armor... but don't concentrate on the knife itself. I'm not talking about the mental stability of a perp who decides to attack a judge with a knife, I'm talking about the bigger picture of how the AP and DR work together.

But anyway, reducing the effectiveness of the armor works for me. The core book specifically states:

1) If the AP score equals or exceeds the DR then any DR provided by the armor is completely ignored so the weapon does full damage.

2) If a weapon has an AP of 0 then it will be affected by all DR scores.

3) Weapons listed as having no AP ignore any and all DR and always do their full amount of damage (Electricity gun).

Personally, I feel that if there is a specific rule like number 2 (page 73 of corebook) then it must mean that AP scores that are higher than 0 but less than the DR do actually do something... otherwise they wouldn't have mentioned rule 2 at all. Going back to the knife, I don't believe that judges are completely impervious to knife attacks which would be the case if we only used the armor or no armor rule.

I'd love to hear Matthew Sprange's opinion on this... or other players and how they interpreted these rules.

Arabin

 

[Matt Sharp]

Cheers for the prompt reply guy's.

I can see the argument from both sides.

I want melee to be a tad more lethal, and in several situations in 2000ad various Judges armour have been penetrated by edged weapons, for example Judge Dredd would of chuckled at most of the stuff stan lee threw at him.

So I will probably go with the AP reducing the effectiveness of the Armour.

Stan Lee is rather an exceptional perp - for a start, his Strength bonus (Str 20, +5 damage) almost allows him to bypass street judge armour, and he has the Power Strike ability from his Master Martial Artist prestige class - his unarmed attacks have an AP score equal to twice his class level - in other words, AP 26, meaning that any body armour is useless against him.. A generous games master might allow him to apply this ability to his shuriken...not that he really needs any more advantages!

Stan Lee is detailed on p13 of Mega-City One's Most Wanted, by the way.

Remember that weakening armour will also weaken perps, not just the judges - citizens are difficult enough to keep alive at low levels as it is without making their lives even more difficult!

If you want to make knives dangerous, put them in the hands of a perp with a high Strength score, or someone exceptionally skilled at knife fighting.

 

[Arabin]

After I went away and though about this in detail, I came to the conclusion that Grimalkin is right. People have to be armored, or not armored. I think the game flows more smoothly now so I wanted to say thanks to Grim for pointing me in the right direction. I hope BigSteve comes around to the same way of thinking as it really does make more sense.

Arabin

 

[BigSteveUK]

Hi Gents,

I playtested both methods and have ended up using the all or nothing rule.

Thanks for your input.

BigSteve