Another plot puzzler

[David Anla Shok']

Was reviewing the episode with the Battle of Coriana VI. While we know that Shadow ships used humans and others as "central processors" do we know if Shadows rode along as well? If not, how then were the Shadows present?

"Is a puzzlement"
King of Siam

 

[captainsmirk]

Onboard the shadow cloud perhaps? Based on ACtA that had lots of internal space.


Nick

 

[talonspiritcat]

There were probably a few Shadows phased in for the Great Debate...if the war was heating up like it was, it seems likely that at least a few Shadows would want to be present to see their chaos-spreading fleet in action.

 

[Shadow Queen]

1 crew member the merged pilot. Shadows use the Eye to keep the ships in control

 

[David Anla Shok']

I crew member the merged pilot. Shadows use the Eye to keep the ships in control

Interesting thought. Speculative on your part of is there some basis?

 

[David Anla Shok']

Onboard the shadow cloud perhaps? Based on ACtA that had lots of internal space.


Nick

Interesting thought. The internal space though, is "space".

 

[lastbesthope]

Onboard the shadow cloud perhaps? Based on ACtA that had lots of internal space.


Nick

Interesting thought. The internal space though, is "space".

The structure itself was quite volumious, perhaps he meant the internal space in the structural members.

LBH

 

[wkehrman]

Onboard the shadow cloud perhaps? Based on ACtA that had lots of internal space.

Nick

Interesting thought. The internal space though, is "space".

The "small" and out of the way junction Dureena identifies as the command hub in A Call to Arms was huge relative to the Victory that smashed into it. It would not be too surprising that some of those nodes as well as the larger "command centers" were populated.

We're also assuming that the Shadows require an atmosphere to exist. The ships themselves are living critters aren't they?

 

[David Anla Shok']

Onboard the shadow cloud perhaps? Based on ACtA that had lots of internal space.


Nick

Interesting thought. The internal space though, is "space".

The structure itself was quite volumious, perhaps he meant the internal space in the structural members.

LBH

True enough. But the planet killer isn't exactly something that they take with them everywhere.

 

[David Anla Shok']

Onboard the shadow cloud perhaps? Based on ACtA that had lots of internal space.

Nick

Interesting thought. The internal space though, is "space".

The "small" and out of the way junction Dureena identifies as the command hub in A Call to Arms was huge relative to the Victory that smashed into it. It would not be too surprising that some of those nodes as well as the larger "command centers" were populated.

We're also assuming that the Shadows require an atmosphere to exist. The ships themselves are living critters aren't they?

The ships were "living", yes. The planet killer looked to be a simple, mechanical structure.

 

[emperorpenguin]

tv show = no rationale needed

 

[l33tpenguin]

it falls down to 'as plot'
If the plot calls for there to be shadows somewhere, there will be shadows somewhere.

I doubt the shadows require atmosphere, Z'ha'dum didn't seem to have much of one and we see a shadow living on the surface. Also, their ships are organic and thrive in deeps space. Not to say that they are the same stuff as their ships, but its possible they found ways to exist without the need of air.

On the matter of the shadow cloud, I personally didn't care for the whole 'giant web structure' explanation in ACTA. Its not at all what was seen or how it acted in previous episodes. I also feel that it is a little 'retarded' to have an eons old race that builds a planet destroying device that has a SINGLE POINT OF FAILURE. I mean, they might as well have just put an exhaust port on it and called it a day.

 

[David Anla Shok']

it falls down to 'as plot'
If the plot calls for there to be shadows somewhere, there will be shadows somewhere.

I doubt the shadows require atmosphere, Z'ha'dum didn't seem to have much of one and we see a shadow living on the surface. Also, their ships are organic and thrive in deeps space. Not to say that they are the same stuff as their ships, but its possible they found ways to exist without the need of air.

On the matter of the shadow cloud, I personally didn't care for the whole 'giant web structure' explanation in ACTA. Its not at all what was seen or how it acted in previous episodes. I also feel that it is a little 'retarded' to have an eons old race that builds a planet destroying device that has a SINGLE POINT OF FAILURE. I mean, they might as well have just put an exhaust port on it and called it a day.

All ships have such a thing... the bridge, pretty much what they whacked on the planet killer. I suspect that it wasn't brought into play until the planetary defenses were brought down. Besides, no one is perfect

 

[l33tpenguin]

All ships have such a thing... the bridge, pretty much what they whacked on the planet killer. I suspect that it wasn't brought into play until the planetary defenses were brought down. Besides, no one is perfect

Modern naval warships have VERY few single points of failure. Hitting the bridge of a carrier will not render any of the ships primary functions, anti-air, aircraft launch, navigation, etc, disabled. While it would be demoralizing and crippling, possibly impairing many aspects of the ship, it would not take it out of the fight. It would be akin to having your star player taken off the field. The team has others that can do his job. Maybe not as well, but the team doesn't forfeit.

Even mankind can build a system better than that. Nuclear missile ranges are interconnected, with each control facility linked to all the other silos. The control facilities don't just watch their own missiles, they watch everyone else’s. So, when the curtain goes up and that big red button is pushed, if one of the control facilities has been destroyed, over run, or the operators have either fallen asleep or decided they don't want to push the button, someone else already has and all the balloons go up.

To say that an advanced civilization can't build a device capable of destroying a planet without incorporating some sort of weak point is just silly.

Its not like the Shadows were a race composed entirely of mad scientists who, by their very nature, have a tendency to build devices of unimaginable power without thinking things through and including simple devices like a battery backup for when the hero unplugs their doomsday machine. The shadows are a race that pre-date some solar systems and have mastered hyperspace.

It’s almost as bad as those species that travel across star systems to invade planets only to find out they have no tolerance for the common cold. Or a civilization that becomes a galactic power despite the gas which it uses to breathe being explosively reactive to radiation...

Also, while its been a while since I watched ACTA, wasn't there a 'decoy' control station, or multiple? If you are going to go through the effort of building a decoy control station, why not make it a real one?

I mean, you do have an UPS for your computer, right?

 

[captainsmirk]

Just to play devil's advocate here...

But considering the Shadows organic technology most living creatures actually have several single points of failure...


Nick

*Edit: Plus the destruction of the control centre didn't actually destroy the shadow cloud, it just triggered the "Planet Destruction" mode prematurely when there was:
A - no target, other than the cloud itself.
and
B - no apparent method of stopping it (which is admittedly a major failing)
and thus destroyed itself.

 

[l33tpenguin]

Just to play devil's advocate here...

But considering the Shadows organic technology most living creatures actually have several single points of failure...


Nick

Thats not quite right, actually. Organtic creatures are amazingly redundant. You have two lungs for a reason. The liver can regernerate, the brain, after suffering trauma, can reconstruct new pathways to repair itself. You can lose a great deal of brain matter and still 'live' albeit in not the best of conditions. Two arms, two legs, ten fingers, two eyes, two ears... Lots of backup incase something gets damaged

Other creatures are even more amazing. Octopi have multiple 'auxiliary' brains that are nearly autonomous from their 'main' brain. Cows have 8? stomaches. Squids, earthworms and octopi have multiple hearts.

 

[lastbesthope]

Cows have 8? stomaches.

4 as I recall.

LBH

 

[Greg Smith]

Cows have four stomachs so they can get the maximum nutrition out of grass, not for redundancy (IIRC). But I take your point.

Breaking the neck is a fairly singular point of weakness on humans.

Why is it neccesary for sci-fi heroes to face a seemingly unstopable force and defeat it through a vital weakness? Is it a dramatic neccesity to make the characters singularly heroic rather than part of an army of fighters that each does their part?

Does it stem from sci-fi as modern myth, or is it more recent than that? Does it all follow on from the death star in Star Wars, which in turn is based on the dambusters?

 

[H]

Shadows can phase out of our existence, so i reckon they can live wherever the hell they like!! as for where were they, wherever the plot dictated. Surely to be true to the show,the furies would have no speed range, they would just be where you wanted them to be

 

[l33tpenguin]

Cows have four stomachs so they can get the maximum nutrition out of grass, not for redundancy (IIRC). But I take your point.

Breaking the neck is a fairly singular point of weakness on humans.

Why is it neccesary for sci-fi heroes to face a seemingly unstopable force and defeat it through a vital weakness? Is it a dramatic neccesity to make the characters singularly heroic rather than part of an army of fighters that each does their part?

Does it stem from sci-fi as modern myth, or is it more recent than that? Does it all follow on from the death star in Star Wars, which in turn is based on the dambusters?

Wow... way to make an even better arguement than I did by addressing the concern of weak plot elements against character heroics in sci-fi rather than just practicality in regards to reality.