ACTA - Breaching Pods in Mixed Dogfights

[Triggy]

OK, today I fought a game EA vs League and both sides used Breaching Pods for a change. What came up was a situation where one side engaged Breaching Pods in a dogfight (with Falkiosi fighters) and the EA fighters (Starfurys) followed in to support the Pods, thus creating multiple combats.

As I understand it after reading the rules, Breaching Pods would normally lose automatically but equally, the Starfurys would fight the Falkiosis with the Pods supporting for a +1. The way I see it (I think the rules back this up), whoever has priority chooses the target for their fighter first and that is resolved with or without support and then the opponent resolves his choice of target.

e.g. A Falkiosi flight is touched by two Breaching Pod flights and a Starfury Flight. The League have the initiative and choose to target a Breaching Pod flight, killing it automatically. Then the EA choose the Falkiosi as a target with its Starfury and get +1 for the Breaching Pod flight supporting.

Is this correct? BTW, a careful reading of the rules is required for this as things are certainly not obvious. Cheers!

 

[Greg Smith]

I don't think the league would get to chose his target. I think the EA would select which flight is fighting.

According to SFoS:

it is up to you how you arrange your dogfights for best advantage!

So I think the EA would chose the Starfury as the dogfighter. If the EA lost the fight, they would have to lose the Starfury flight and could not opt to lose a breaching pod.

It seems odd that pods can give a +1 bonus, but the rules don't prohibit it.

 

[Wulf Corbett]

The attacker gets to choose which flight is attacking, and what it's target is. You arrange YOUR Dogfights, not his. Therefore, if the League have initiative and declare the Falkosi is attacking the Breaching Pod, the Pod automaticaly loses and dies... But, when the EA then declare, the 'fury can indeed get the +1 from the remaining Pod, and roll as normal.

Wulf

 

[MongooseMatt]

The Wulf is correct.

 

[Triggy]

The attacker gets to choose which flight is attacking, and what it's target is. You arrange YOUR Dogfights, not his. Therefore, if the League have initiative and declare the Falkosi is attacking the Breaching Pod, the Pod automaticaly loses and dies... But, when the EA then declare, the 'fury can indeed get the +1 from the remaining Pod, and roll as normal.

Wulf

Thanks Matt and Wulf, that's the conclusion we came to even if I didn't explain it well above

 

[Wulf Corbett]

The Wulf is correct.

Suddenly I'm a 'The'... 8)

Wulf

 

[Lorcan Nagle]

In a recent game playing earth Vs minbari, I swamped a single nial with as many starfuries as I could, and the minbari player (having the initiative) then put a nial on the tail of each fury flight, though in such a way that no nial touched more than one starfury. Given that he had the initiative, I allowed him to declare the dogfights and he proceeded to make a series of 1 on 1 nial vs fury dogfights - which is how we've always played such conflicts. Given that I initially engaged the first Nial, does that mean that I could have declared a gigantic furball instead?

 

[Wulf Corbett]

In a recent game playing earth Vs minbari, I swamped a single nial with as many starfuries as I could, and the minbari player (having the initiative) then put a nial on the tail of each fury flight, though in such a way that no nial touched more than one starfury. Given that he had the initiative, I allowed him to declare the dogfights and he proceeded to make a series of 1 on 1 nial vs fury dogfights - which is how we've always played such conflicts. Given that I initially engaged the first Nial, does that mean that I could have declared a gigantic furball instead?

If you had initiative, yes. The Dogfights YOU declare would be different from the dogfights HE declares. You declare targets and supporting flights for YOUR attacks, but he declares his for HIS attacks. So it's all about who goes first... What flights you have left, you can then declare in the most advantageous fashion to yourself (although you can't move them, of course).

Wulf

 

[Lorcan Nagle]

so if my starfuries had survived, I could have done a 6 on 1 mash up on the nial in the centre (presumably supported by any surviving nials on the outside, as they would have been in base to base contact with the furies dogfighitng central nial)

 

[Wulf Corbett]

You know, I remember looking at the Dogfighting rules at the weekend, and thinking at the time that I wanted some clarification on this myself. I seemed at the time to think the ATTACKER could get bonuses from supporting flights, but the rule did not specify that the defender did.

Quoting myself there, I have the rule here, SFoS p11:
"You may add +1 to your dice roll for every extra flight you have in base contact with the enemy flight you are targetting".

OK, so, reading this, you can support a dogfight, but only oif you are TARGETTING an enemy. Only the attacker targets an enemy in a Dogfight. By a strict reading of the rules, only the attacker gets to use supporting flights...

Wulf

 

[Burger]

Yes, but remember a flight of fighters can only kill 1 enemy flight per turn. So if each of your furies won and killed its opponent, you couldn't kill another enemy flight when it was your turn to dogfight back.

If any of your fighters survived without killing an enemy flight (eg. a draw), then this flight can initiate a dogfight and kill the enemy flight. Other flights (incl those who have killed an enemy already) can support for a +1 each.

 

[Ripple]

I do not believe that is correct. A flight may only kill one other flight per dogfight, but a flight may be involved in multiple dogfights, it just may not support against AND dogfight the same flight.

In theory a flight contacted on multiple sides could support vs one of the enemy flights, defend vs another enemy flight and finally attack a third flight. That could kill three or more flights per turn. And if it is a ISA Nial/Whitestar fighter even expect to win...=)

Ripple

 

[Burger]

Ah my mistake, each flight may destroy one enemy per dogfight, not per turn.

 

[Wulf Corbett]

I screwed this post up from earlier in the thread by editing instead of quoting, so I'll repeat it here in proper order...

You know, I remember looking at the Dogfighting rules at the weekend, and thinking at the time that I wanted some clarification on this myself. I seemed at the time to think the ATTACKER could get bonuses from supporting flights, but the rule did not specify that the defender did.

Quoting myself there, I have the rule here, SFoS p11:
"You may add +1 to your dice roll for every extra flight you have in base contact with the enemy flight you are targeting".

OK, so, reading this, you can support a dogfight, but only if you are TARGETING an enemy. Only the attacker targets an enemy in a Dogfight. By a strict reading of the rules, only the attacker gets to use supporting flights...

Wulf

 

[lastbesthope]

Hmm, I've always allowed the defender to get support from flights in base contact with the primary attack flight, onlyseems fair.

LBH

 

[Wulf Corbett]

Hmm, I've always allowed the defender to get support from flights in base contact with the primary attack flight, onlyseems fair.

So have I (and I intend to continue), but it always pays to read the rules - at least you know what you SHOULD do then, whether you do or not 8)

Wulf