10 Sagg fleet, Mythbusted?

[Calistan]

Silly question, but what would be a fair skirmish Saggitarious ship or a fair raid level ship?

 

[Chernobyl]

its been changed about quite a bit actually...

orginally, it was a skirmish ship with missiles 4F/1P/1S/2A
under SFOS it was promoted to Raid with missiles 6F/2P/2S/2A
under the tourney rules it was demoted back to skirmish with a missile load out of 2F/6P/6S/2A

in its original configuration, it was also hull 4 and had considerably less hull and crew.

Chernobyl

 

[CZuschlag]

Prelude,

We could probably do several simulations. Lets' use Call to Arms as the scenario, as it gives the Vorlons the best chance. Suggest a bank of four sims:

1). Allow Jump-Out for the win
2). Switch sides

3). Disallow jump-out winning
4). Switch sides.

We might be able to run 2 at the same time, to make things faster. Counters would be the way to go if we do this. I think counters vs. model bases are of zero consequence in this fight, so we don't care.

 

[Geekybiker]

Silly question, but what would be a fair skirmish Saggitarious ship or a fair raid level ship?

AT skirmish? I would think it should hav eno more than 4 missle in any arc.

Maybe 2f 4ps 2a Keep the crew and damage, but lower it to hull 4?

Still would have considerable firepower, but be brittle like a fire support ship really should be.

Im sure someone (triggy?) has worked out a version that is statistically fair.

 

[Chernobyl]

Which is very NEARLY the case withe sag fleet, you just cant wear the firepower down fast enough to save your own fleet in most cases.

well, the tourney sag starts pretty far ahead of the curve in that respect.

I think a 6/3/3/2 config would be reasonable at skirmish.

Chern

 

[Geekybiker]

Which is very NEARLY the case withe sag fleet, you just cant wear the firepower down fast enough to save your own fleet in most cases.

well, the tourney sag starts pretty far ahead of the curve in that respect.

I think a 6/3/3/2 config would be reasonable at skirmish.

Chern

That would make it more powerful than the SFOS raid version.......

 

[Chernobyl]

at raid I don't think thats too bad. The 2x broadsides of the skirmish version in the tourney pack are the over the top problem.
Some have commented that bringing those down to 4 would be fine. personally, to me most of the firepower should be foreward, hence my 6/3/3/2 raid version.

 

[Calistan]

Why do missles have an arc? Missles should be a turreted weapons system.

8ad turreted system for a raid level ship should concidered.

 

[Reaverman]

Why do missles have an arc? Missles should be a turreted weapons system.

8ad turreted system for a raid level ship should concidered.

Nooooooooooooo....thats soo gonna break that, an already broken fleet :shock:

 

[Calistan]

Why do missles have an arc? Missles should be a turreted weapons system.

8ad turreted system for a raid level ship should concidered.

Nooooooooooooo....thats soo gonna break that, an already broken fleet :shock:

I disagree and I think you should try it out. I think that the tourney fleet you took out should able to destroy the fleet of 5 Sagitarious missle boats with an 8ad turreted missle system.

 

[Reaverman]

Why do missles have an arc? Missles should be a turreted weapons system.

8ad turreted system for a raid level ship should concidered.

Nooooooooooooo....thats soo gonna break that, an already broken fleet :shock:

I disagree and I think you should try it out. I think that the tourney fleet you took out should able to destroy the fleet of 5 Sagitarious missle boats with an 8ad turreted missle system.

at what PL?

cos at Skirmish, the player will just barrel them off at any angle, while directing all attacks on one ship. No one will be able to try and hide in weaker arcs, and its going to be a pain to kill.

 

[prelude_to_war]

I think he means it to be Raid. No way - 8AD turreted would make it better than the Apollo - a Battle PL ship.

 

[Reaverman]

No way - that would make it tons better than the Apollo - a Battle PL ship.

Agreed :shock:

 

[lastbesthope]

Why do missles have an arc? Missles should be a turreted weapons system.

Errm, technically, in the rules mechanic, turreted is an arc.

:lol:

LBH

 

[Twin-Linked Aldades]

I think he means it to be Raid. No way - 8AD turreted would make it better than the Apollo - a Battle PL ship.

Not really, the apollo lays down a higher RoF

 

[Reaverman]

I think he means it to be Raid. No way - 8AD turreted would make it better than the Apollo - a Battle PL ship.

Not really, the apollo lays down a higher RoF

8 AD, SAP and Precise, all in a Skirmish vessel with a Hull of 5,and turreted....come on, its busted....why not have a G'Quan at Raid while we are at it too :lol:

 

[prelude_to_war]

I think he means it to be Raid. No way - 8AD turreted would make it better than the Apollo - a Battle PL ship.

Not really, the apollo lays down a higher RoF

Sure but then you're looking at two of these turreted Sags for every one Apollo - at least in a tournament setting. Then it's 16AD of missiles every other turn or 8AD every turn from two separate sources from 30". Throw in turreted and there you go, broken.

Sorry, the Sag should probably be 2F/4/4/2a, hull 4 (as mentioned earlier) to remain at Skirmish. Or keep as is and raise it to Raid.

 

[Reaverman]

I think he means it to be Raid. No way - 8AD turreted would make it better than the Apollo - a Battle PL ship.

Not really, the apollo lays down a higher RoF

Sure but then you're looking at two of these turreted Sags for every one Apollo - at least in a tournament setting. Then it's 16AD of missiles every other turn or 8AD every turn from two separate sources from 30". Throw in turreted and there you go, broken.

Sorry, the Sag should probably be 2F/4/4/2a, hull 4 (as mentioned earlier) to remain at Skirmish. Or keep as is and raise it to Raid.

I totally agree

 

[Target]

Why not only have missles on the broadsides and give them some pulse guns. Most other races only have the fwd arc for their long range missle type weapons.

 

[Twin-Linked Aldades]

I think he means it to be Raid. No way - 8AD turreted would make it better than the Apollo - a Battle PL ship.

Not really, the apollo lays down a higher RoF

Sure but then you're looking at two of these turreted Sags for every one Apollo - at least in a tournament setting. Then it's 16AD of missiles every other turn or 8AD every turn from two separate sources from 30". Throw in turreted and there you go, broken.

Sorry, the Sag should probably be 2F/4/4/2a, hull 4 (as mentioned earlier) to remain at Skirmish. Or keep as is and raise it to Raid.

Well, I was comparing ship by ship, not FAP per FAP, for in that case, 20 hermes outshout an apollo as well and you actually can forget ANY form of relative balance if you make comparisons on that basis...

I`m not disagreeing that the Sag is broken, especially in the tourney list, but hey, that problem solves itself normally seen when the mysterious rumoured artifact of Armi and Geddona gets discovered [enter Twilight Zone music here]...

In the end though, no matter what bust, comparisons etc etc one would make, the system of PL`s will keep ships uneven compared to each other, so i guess that would be one of those things people have to live with. I do advocate that a judge should be legally allowed to fysically smash any ship of a 10x sag fleet with a hammer in a tournament when it gets destroyed in game... by the end of round 2 he should be out of the tourney automatically then :lol: