Your chance to vote in a settigs poll that will...

[andakitty]

Oh, believe me, I think some of the D20 background material and artwork looks very good. But as I said I don't have the time for doing a conversion or the extra funds to buy books that I have only limited use for. Especially with the choices available these days. Even though my choices seem fairly limited without D20 stuff. Oh, well. Unfortunately I don't think there is going to be a RQ system Conan, nor do I expect Mongoose to take such a chance so guys like me can have exactly what we want. I'd love it if Mongoose Matt got on here and told me I was wrong, though.

I've got a serious dislike for D20, though. If it and its clones and cousins got to be all that was available, I'd just drop the hobby altogether.

 

[andakitty]

Right on, Gbaji. In 1980 we (my gaming group at the time) were playing AD&D and I think the others were enjoying it. I wasn't and was attending games less and less. Then we were in a local gamestore one day and saw a new game with a lady in bronze looking armor pushing a big lizard away with a shield (she was actually USING the shield) and getting ready to whack it with a sword. I picked it up and flipped through it, paid the cashier and took it home. A week later I was running Rune Quest, having sold my AD&D books. And I never looked back. Almost all my gaming since has been some form of BRP.

And now I think I am going to get to relive that with MRQ.

 

[HyrumOWC]

We'll be starting with adventures, but plan on doing a version of our Diomin campaign setting for MRQ. (Which is something I'm dying to do as a lot of the inspiration for Diomin came from Glorantha and RQ.)

Here's a short blurb on it:

Welcome to the legendary and mythic world of Diomin, a dark fantasy setting where the mighty deeds of heroes and the terrible atrocities of villains clash amidst the mysterious machinations of the gods.

Become immersed in a world where a dark and twisted race attempt to bring about the total annihilation of life and then offer the world up to their terror inspiring goddess. Where a once great people, blessed of their god, fled from their corrupted brethren back to the land of their ancestors. And a time when a race long divided, now stand face to face on the brink of a war that threatens all the people of Diomin.

Will the actions of the players be the great and mighty deeds of heroes, or the dark plots that bring about the destruction of all creation?

Hyrum.
OWC

 

[Cobra]

IMO, BRP is like the Macintosh OS. D20 is like Windows. It's all hobbled together and crashes all the time.

One of the reasons the system is important to me is realism. I really like my system to be realistic. Why? It all has to do with the suspension of disbelief. When a system is unrealistic, it becomes very difficult to continue to believe in the game. And D20 has some very quirky rules and ideas, some of which are designed to gloss over the realism.

For this same reason I believe that James Bond or Mission Impossible will always make better movies than broadway musicals.

Cobra

 

[homerjsinnott]

Im running the d20 conan currently, and to be honest it works great. The real secret to a good game is good players and a good GM with a good story Idea in a Good fantasy world. The mechanics are (or at least should be) of secondary consideration. if you are playing a game because of the mechanics and not because of the world and the story, then you are not "role" playing, your "roll" playing. As for a conan ruinquest? What do you need to use the ruinquest game mechanics in the conan world? A book of rules for generating and equipting fantasy heroes, monsters and NPCs, you'll have that soon, setting books describing the world, you already have that. You don't need a special Ruinquest conan game. (It would be redundent.) Once ruinquest comes out you'll already be able to do it. at most you'll need a signs and portents article (ok maby 2 to 3) with some guidlines to make things work.

I would rather see mongoose do something entirely new then rehash something they already have. How about a sci-fi or modern version fo ruinquest system. Or, how about both, once you have core books for Fantasy, Modern and Sci-fi the sky is the limit on the worlds you could play.

So once again, lets not re-hash what we have but push for what we don't have.

Woa! woa guys, give the guy a break, yes.

He does have some valid points,

I Love Runequest, I love Glorantha. But if, if, a better system came along for me I would play it. BUT I feel that a good game is a sythesis of the three.

Also producing new material over conversions is a valid point I'm not saying I agree (I do, but I can see the other side) but it is a valid point.

Those tones of voices on any side help the discussion little.


Ade.

 

[Lord Twig]

Why the hate on D20? There are many systems that I don't care for, but I don't hate them. I have played D&D 3.x since it came out, my RQIII game having just recently falling apart after 15 years of play. D&D is not the same as RQIII. System does make a difference, but the new D&D is a good system, certainly much better than what came before.

Here are a few things to note.

Why do you refer to D&D or the D20 system as OGL? OGL is Open Gaming License. It is a license, it is not the system.

Mongoose RuneQuest is going to be OGL. It obviously is not going to be a D20 system. It is just going to be a game system with an Open Gaming License.

As for WotC/Hasbro. I do not like Hasbro in general, but WotC has been a solid advocate of RPGs. As an example. My local Game Keeper had one shelf dedicated to RPGs. When WotC bought the chain it immediately expanded to two shelves and was expanding. Of course as soon as Hasbro bought WotC all RPGs went on clearance and dwindled to nothing shortly before they closed the stores altogether. I can't help but not like Hasbro for that.

WotC and it's D&D/D20 system has brought about a renaissance in gaming. Just before D20 came out, RPGs still existed, but the number of people playing them seemed to be constantly dwindling. Now there are thousands more people playing RPGs thanks to the new D&D and the number is still growing. Now that they are playing they have the chance to discover the other games that are still out there. Other game systems that I like are Champions/Hero System for superheroes and ShadowRun. And now the new RuneQuest. They should have a new slogan for D20. "D20. The gateway RPG!"

Mongoose would not even exist if it were not for the D20 system and the OGL. How much money has Mongoose made on OGL D20 books? It is because of this profit and experience that they were able to get the licenses that they have now.

(That last is purely the speculative view of an outsider. I really don't know the full story of Mongoose Publishing.)

Back on topic.

For a setting I plan to revive my 3rd age RuneQuest game using the new rules. I will buy all the 2nd age stuff to flesh out history, but my 3rd age looks nothing like what Greg Stafford envisions now. That's what happens when you allow your PCs to influence the world that they live in.

 

[C. Chapman]

Why the hate on D20? There are many systems that I don't care for, but I don't hate them. I have played D&D 3.x since it came out, my RQIII game having just recently falling apart after 15 years of play. D&D is not the same as RQIII. System does make a difference, but the new D&D is a good system, certainly much better than what came before.

Here are a few things to note.

Why do you refer to D&D or the D20 system as OGL? OGL is Open Gaming License. It is a license, it is not the system.

Mongoose RuneQuest is going to be OGL. It obviously is not going to be a D20 system. It is just going to be a game system with an Open Gaming License.

As for WotC/Hasbro. I do not like Hasbro in general, but WotC has been a solid advocate of RPGs. As an example. My local Game Keeper had one shelf dedicated to RPGs. When WotC bought the chain it immediately expanded to two shelves and was expanding. Of course as soon as Hasbro bought WotC all RPGs went on clearance and dwindled to nothing shortly before they closed the stores altogether. I can't help but not like Hasbro for that.

WotC and it's D&D/D20 system has brought about a renaissance in gaming. Just before D20 came out, RPGs still existed, but the number of people playing them seemed to be constantly dwindling. Now there are thousands more people playing RPGs thanks to the new D&D and the number is still growing. Now that they are playing they have the chance to discover the other games that are still out there. Other game systems that I like are Champions/Hero System for superheroes and ShadowRun. And now the new RuneQuest. They should have a new slogan for D20. "D20. The gateway RPG!"

Mongoose would not even exist if it were not for the D20 system and the OGL. How much money has Mongoose made on OGL D20 books? It is because of this profit and experience that they were able to get the licenses that they have now.

(That last is purely the speculative view of an outsider. I really don't know the full story of Mongoose Publishing.)

Who are you talking to? Speaking for myself (because it's not clear precisely who you're talking about, as you haven't quoted anyone, and you may be talking to a general "you") I haven't said I hate the d20 System, or any of its OGL derivatives (such as the Conan rpg). Hell, I even wrote parts of the ENnie award-winning "Monsternomicon" (among other things d20). That said, I really don't like the system (whether pure d20 System, or just about 99% of OGL derivatives based on the SRD, Conan included), but I don't hate it; I simply won't run or play it. It goes counter to my playstyle, preferences, and Conan game expectations.

OGL is an acronym widely used to refer to d20 System derivatives based off the SRD (System Reference Document), which is why in rpg circles at least, "OGL" has become synonymous with "SRD derivative". Indeed, a number of rpgs derived from the SRD feature an OGL logo as a result (such as Lone Wolf). So, although technically "OGL" is simply a license, it is also widely understood to refer almost exclusively to SRD-based rpgs.

My dislike of the d20 System aside, I agree that it rejuvenated the hobby (though it never achieved the sheer level of popularity AD&D and BECMI D&D did at the height of the 80s; no game could ever hope to in the modern environment). Of course, long term there have been some arguments that it was detrimental, though such debates are but a small portion of the current discussions concerning the significant slump in the gaming market overall (rpgs included) and the general doom and gloom concerning the state of the industry (which has been seeing some quite dramatic shrinkage in the last year; the "growing number" you mention has pretty much collapsed recently). It's a real shame to see that so many hobby stores have shut down, and that a number of rpg companies have collapsed (though the result of such a d20 saturation was widely predicted before; there's only so much the market can bear).

cheers!
Colin

 

[C. Chapman]

Woa! woa guys, give the guy a break, yes.

He does have some valid points,

I Love Runequest, I love Glorantha. But if, if, a better system came along for me I would play it. BUT I feel that a good game is a sythesis of the three.

Also producing new material over conversions is a valid point I'm not saying I agree (I do, but I can see the other side) but it is a valid point.

Those tones of voices on any side help the discussion little.


Ade.

I wasn't arguing his assertion that he thought it'd be better to produce all-new material. Indeed, if he'd simply said, "I'd rather see all-new material." that'd have been cool. It is a valid point of view, as you said. However, he instead fell into the trap of being dismissive and insulting, making assumptions about people's play preferences, and throwing out a bunch of truly old and tired (as well as narrow-minded) cliches as objective "truths". That's what folks have taken exception to.

Just as importantly, this thread is dedicated to asking what settings folks would like to see for RQ (of which Conan is one option in the poll). Posting what you don't want (he started with, "I'm against Conan for the RQ system, the current D20 game is great and really dosen't need to compete with itself.") isn't even what the thread was asking. When folks (rightly) pointed out his competing argument wasn't really logical, he then posted the response that folk really took exception to. So, no need to give the guy a break, imo.

cheers!
Colin

 

[Lord Twig]

Colin: I guess mostly the question was for andakitty, who seems to have a real hate for it, but I have seen many posts on this forum where people stated they disliked the system and I wondered why? I respect that everyone is going to have their own opinion; I just wanted to hear some of the reasoning behind them.

Back to the topic again. I finally voted for "Something Else". None of those settings really grabbed me as something I would buy. Probably something totally new would be more interesting to me. As I said before, everyone has their own opinions. Even me!

 

[andakitty]

Well, Lord Twig, I don't hate D20, per se. That would require emotional investment. I loath it, despise it; for many reasons. It's overdesigned, its difficult to play, unpleasant to run (I would rather be at work), every time I try to play it I get heartburn due to the restrictive nature of chargen and get no farther. I was acquainted with some of the founders of WOTC in the 90's, and we ain't buddies. Everybody around here plays D20 or Exalted (except for half a dozen or so individualists, and even they play D20 too). A game I honestly don't enjoy, that everybody else wants to play. Almost exclusively. One whose creators seem to want to 'assimilate' all other games, make D20 the 'standard' for rpgs. :roll:

To add insult to injury, or injury to insult, whichever, the books tend to be the most beautiful in print. It's like the girl in the Poe short story, 'Rappacini's Daughter'. Anyway, that's enough of a rant. It's just the way I feel. I don't take other people to task for playing it or even liking it. Hey, I wish I could...but it's not in the cards. 8)

 

[GbajiTheDeceiver]

I've hated it for well over 20 years now, since long before I discovered RQ. I could never understand some of the restrictions (like a Magic User has some kind of bizarre mental block when it comes to using certain weapons, for inst), the way HP went up made zero sense to me, and in general the rules were like a mish-mash of incompatible ideas from various sources thrown together in the hope that they'd stay together.

Plus, with AD&D, it was total rule bloat. Bigger does not always equal better, which is a fundamental concept the designers seemed unaware of (admittedly RQ3 made the same mistake, but that's a whole nother story).

Having said that, more recent editions are at least moving in something of a right direction, but the whole system badly needs to be ripped up and started again. It would help if WoTC didn't bring out 47 new rulebooks every time we turned our backs.

 

[Utgardloki]

I have Mongoose Publishing's _Paranoia_, _Macho Women with Guns_, _The Book of Hell_, and _Infernum_. I am looking forward to the release of new Runequest rules. I'd like to see a Paranoiac Macho Women with Guns in Hell setting done in Runequest. :lol:

 

[C. Chapman]

Colin: I guess mostly the question was for andakitty, who seems to have a real hate for it, but I have seen many posts on this forum where people stated they disliked the system and I wondered why? I respect that everyone is going to have their own opinion; I just wanted to hear some of the reasoning behind them.

Back to the topic again. I finally voted for "Something Else". None of those settings really grabbed me as something I would buy. Probably something totally new would be more interesting to me. As I said before, everyone has their own opinions. Even me!

Gotcha, and thanks for the explanation; much appreciated.

Folks tend to dislike the d20 System (I think the word, "hate" is typically used for exaggerated effect rather than actuality) for a number of reasons. I've personally never really understood all of them, but for me, I simply find the game too slow and clunky, and that it "gets in the way" too much as a result. I tend to prefer games that run insanely fast (to help maintain pacing and excitement) and have strong narrative elements (Cinematic Unisystem is a favourite of mine, for example), tending towards the liter end of the rules spectrum. That the abstract nature of the d20 System doesn't really seem to have significantly increased its speed of play or prep (a sore point for a number of folks I've heard expressing their own dislikes), and that its tactical focus is not a focus I enjoy, makes it even less palatable for my tastes.

I hope that explains my personal issues with the system, and therefore goes some way to satisfying your curiosity.

cheers!
Colin

 

[Archer]

Ok, I have mentioned in other threads that I dislike d20. That is I do that after having GMed D&D and other d20 games for about 2.5 years. The reason is very simple; I got feed up. I want variation. And the most important reason at the moment; I want to be able to just ad-hoc statistics for NPCs so that I do not have to spend several hours before we shall play to write down, calculate, and otherwise prepare just the statistics part of an NPC. I much rather sit down and write down a description of the NPC, and then ad-hoc stats when needed during play (something I have always done in Basic Role-playing games, as well as WFRP).

But to return to the topic of this thread; I voted Conan. Because I have wanted a Conan RPG with a Basic Role-play like system (it makes very much sense to me) since I first read the Conan books, comics and saw the movie back in the 80's.
That said, I would also very much like to see some sort of fantasy (other than Lankhmar and Glorantha), Post-apocalyptic (sort of like Mad Max II or Gamma World), and scifi settings specifically designed for MRQ.

 

[andakitty]

I almost voted John Carter, but I'm not even convinced that would make a good setting rpg wise. But I've been thinking about 'something else' and have a couple of other ideas.

What do y'all think of Pellucidar? Empire building amongst the various tribes, introducing technology, etc. You have 'magic' in the form of psionic powers, like the Mahar's mental dominance. Lots of spears and axes, low armor. That could fit well with the way the combat system seems to be shaping up. Lots of dinosaurs and bizarre tribes.

Then there is the work of a little known author who has been compared to Jack Vance, Michael Shea. The stories and short novels featuring Nifft the Lean and a pair of not well known novels titled 'In Yana' and 'A Quest for Simbilis', which may or may not be set in the same world. Nifft was adventurer, con man, and thief in a baroque world setting with some definite similarities to the Dying Earth. His trademark weapon was the spear, especially thrown. There is an underworld inhabited by demons, and you can travel there to recover treasures, as Journey to the Center of the Earth...not as Jules Verne but the TV movie starring Treat Williams. 'In Yana' features a quest to a city buried by a catastrophe, the entrance to which may be gained by paying toll. Once inside the inhabitants hunt you while you try to uncover Yana's secrets. And a lot of the inhabitants ain't human.

 

[atgxtg]

something else.

How about a historical setting, say Ancient Rome? RQ is well suited for ancient cultures, and there isn't much out for that setting.

I think it is a bad idea to do something like Conan, since there is already a game out for the setting and RQ would just wind up competing with another product (also produced by Mongoose so it would end up competing with iself for marketshare).

Something historical or orignal would also stand a better chance of lasting, as opposed to vanishing in a couple of years when the liscense runs out.

 

[SteveMND]

I think a historical setting would be nice as well, although I'm not too keen on Ancient Rome; I think that genre's been done to death. Ancient Greece might be interesting, though; I played in a very cool RQ campaign set in the eastern Mediterranean one time.

In addition to the Three Kingdoms setting, how about ancient India or Persia? Lots of relatively untapped potential there, I think.

"I think it is a bad idea to do something like Conan, since there is already a game out for the setting and RQ would just wind up competing with another product (also produced by Mongoose so it would end up competing with iself for marketshare)."

Well, as suggested previously, if they did them as dual-statted rulebooks, they in theory would increase their revenue, as the people that love d20 but aren't interested in RQ could buy it, as well as the folks who love RQ but hate d20. Of course, they would lose andakitty as a potential customer for that one product line, but I think that crippling loss could be made up for by other new customers.

 

[andakitty]

Ho, ho, funny. :roll:

grumblemumbledangitallwhippersnappersisupposeicouldsupportmongooseforpublishingrqbutitwouldbepainfulgrumblegrumbledangitall.

 

[atgxtg]

I think a historical setting would be nice as well, although I'm not too keen on Ancient Rome

Done to death? Hardly. I can only think of three books that cover the Roman Empire: Gurps Rome, AD&D Glory of Rome, and D20 Mythic Vistas.

On the other hand I can think of aa lot more books that cover Ancient Greece :GURPS, HERO, Odeyssus, A&D Age of Heroes, OGL Ancients, Hercules & Xena (a better RPG than expected).

Now if you count all the Gladiator supplements for the various games (mostly D20)...

Well, as suggested previously, if they did them as dual-statted rulebooks, they in theory would increase their revenue, as the people that love d20 but aren't interested in RQ could buy it, as well as the folks who love RQ but hate d20. Of course, they would lose andakitty as a potential customer for that one product line, but I think that crippling loss could be made up for by other new customers.

I have mixed feelings about dual stat RPG books. Several companies have done that in the past makeing suplments for multiple systems such as ICE's ROLEMASTER/HERO stuff and AEG's L5R/D20 line. In the end one system gets covered better than the other, and both sides feel that too much space is "wasted on a system they don't play" .

Admitte a D20/RQ produt is probably going to outsell a RQ productthough.
It might be good for Mongoose, but probably not good for the RQ line.

 

[andakitty]

Actually no, I won't support dual stats. Maybe I don't count as a customer, but I am tired of the garbage my hobby has become and I sure as hell won't support it any more. I am weary of seeing something potentially fun being dragged down by mediocrity.