Why is the Nemesis an Armageddon Level Ship ?
- Thread starter Goldritter
- Start date
Goldritter
Mongoose
I´ve Problems, with the fact, that the Missiles are the only Weapon the Apollo can use. The Particle Beam has a range of 3" and that was it.
And I guess, that the Apollo can´t use it´s Heavy Missiles all to often.
For Example a manouverable enemy can hold is ships on the sides of the Apollo and the Apollo can´t shoot back.
And if I look at the Damage and Crew Points its only 1 or 2 points better as the Nova. And 30" are not so much if you must fight against Ships with Beam, Super AP, DD /TD.
And I guess, that the Apollo can´t use it´s Heavy Missiles all to often.
For Example a manouverable enemy can hold is ships on the sides of the Apollo and the Apollo can´t shoot back.
And if I look at the Damage and Crew Points its only 1 or 2 points better as the Nova. And 30" are not so much if you must fight against Ships with Beam, Super AP, DD /TD.
Uhhh...
Right and the Nova has Hull5 compared to Hull6.
And if you consider that an Omegas Sidefirepower is rather useless...... Its not too much of a difference really.
Sure you get to shoot a few Twinlinked at the enemy, but that is prolly not going scare him.
Plus at Battle lvl there are few ships that are actually maneuverable.
Right and the Nova has Hull5 compared to Hull6.
And if you consider that an Omegas Sidefirepower is rather useless...... Its not too much of a difference really.
Sure you get to shoot a few Twinlinked at the enemy, but that is prolly not going scare him.
Plus at Battle lvl there are few ships that are actually maneuverable.
Goldritter
Mongoose
O.K. The Hull 6 is nice.
But I must admitt, that the sidefirepower of the Omega is nice. Espacially for fast Ships which try to outmanouver the Omega.
In my first games I´ve killed most ships with the side weaponery of the Omega. (O.k they where Skirmish- Ships
).
But I must admitt, that the sidefirepower of the Omega is nice. Espacially for fast Ships which try to outmanouver the Omega.
In my first games I´ve killed most ships with the side weaponery of the Omega. (O.k they where Skirmish- Ships
).
Goldritter
Mongoose
But again to the main topic.
If I think about the Adira I get a shiver.
If the rumors are right, then will the Adira be a abgunned Octurion and the Octurion is better armed as the Nemesis. With all the many AD with twin-linked and AP+DD.
And if the Adira is upgunned then I can bet, that the sideweapons alone wil have more than 18 AD on 10" and 12".
And because it´s Centauri it will have more Damage Pints and Crew.
And a massiv Initiative plus. Like the Octurion.
So again compared with this Behemos I don´t think, that the Nemesis is a good Armageddon Level Ship.
If I think about the Adira I get a shiver.
If the rumors are right, then will the Adira be a abgunned Octurion and the Octurion is better armed as the Nemesis. With all the many AD with twin-linked and AP+DD.
And if the Adira is upgunned then I can bet, that the sideweapons alone wil have more than 18 AD on 10" and 12".
And because it´s Centauri it will have more Damage Pints and Crew.
And a massiv Initiative plus. Like the Octurion.
So again compared with this Behemos I don´t think, that the Nemesis is a good Armageddon Level Ship.
the adira does outgun the nemesis but doesnt have mini beams in side arcs, it has matter canons and twin particle arrays altho its front beam is lovely and so are the rest of the front weapons. yes it does give huge command bonus and is a carrier to boot so like i have said b4, IMO the adira is the best of the armageddon ships but thats what you get when you combine centauri tech with drakh tech 
2 octurions will outgun an adira tho in every arc, and even outranges it to the front, plus more fighters.
2 octurions will outgun an adira tho in every arc, and even outranges it to the front, plus more fighters.
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
katadder said:the adira does outgun the nemesis but doesnt have mini beams in side arcs, it has matter canons and twin particle arrays altho its front beam is lovely and so are the rest of the front weapons. yes it does give huge command bonus and is a carrier to boot so like i have said b4, IMO the adira is the best of the armageddon ships but thats what you get when you combine centauri tech with drakh tech
2 octurions will outgun an adira tho in every arc, and even outranges it to the front, plus more fighters.
Only two more fighters, though, and they launch slower. Isn't the Adira a fleet carrier as well?
SylvrDragon
Mongoose
Goldritter said:
I hear references to the abilities of the Marathon, but I can't find anything solid talking about what they can really do, or what they're armed with? I'd assume it has hull 6, since it is a Crusade battleship, and I'd also assume that' is not as tough as an Omega, though it likely has as many interceptors. I'm also under the impression that is has 2/45 turns and a speed value somewhere in the area of 14". I've also noted that the hull design shows placements for both a beam and missile racks. But these are just assumptions as of now. Can anyone fill me in a little better as to how this ship works?
Goldritter
Mongoose
I´ve made a test game one Nemesis loaded with standart missiles and Thunderbolts against one Octurion(tournament stats) with Sentris. I wanted to know how long it takes for the Nemesis to beat the Octurion.
It needs 12 turns of play. The Octurion was blasted apart and the Nemesis has lost 50 Crew and has no Hull damage through Self repair.
And the Nemesis has used it´s main weapon two times once in the 7´th round and in the last (in these it won the initative).
In the first six round the Octurion has scored the most hits and the most crits and a Bridge hit so that the Nemesis can´t use any SA in round 4.
And the Player of the Octurion made realy bad rolls (once he roled 10 Dices has no score over 4 :shock: )
Things changed, when the Nemesis scored a no weapon can fire against the Octurion which he cant repair for 4 rounds.
The fighters had a 3 round dogfight where the Thunderbolts were anhilated. But the Nemesis shot all Sentris a round later down.
There were 3 round of no attacks, because the Octurion can´t shoot and was more then 10" from the Nemesis away and never in his front firing Arc. (In the entire Battle it was only 5 times in the Front firing Arc in the first three, 7`th and in the last round.)
Suprise, the most crits score the Light Multi-Phased Cutters and not the Missiles.
I must confess if the Nemesis hasn´t scored these good crits I think ,the Octurion has got him to Skeleton Crew. In only 5 round it decimated the Crew of the Nemesis by 50 Crewmen.
It needs 12 turns of play. The Octurion was blasted apart and the Nemesis has lost 50 Crew and has no Hull damage through Self repair.
And the Nemesis has used it´s main weapon two times once in the 7´th round and in the last (in these it won the initative).
In the first six round the Octurion has scored the most hits and the most crits and a Bridge hit so that the Nemesis can´t use any SA in round 4.
And the Player of the Octurion made realy bad rolls (once he roled 10 Dices has no score over 4 :shock: )
Things changed, when the Nemesis scored a no weapon can fire against the Octurion which he cant repair for 4 rounds.
The fighters had a 3 round dogfight where the Thunderbolts were anhilated. But the Nemesis shot all Sentris a round later down.
There were 3 round of no attacks, because the Octurion can´t shoot and was more then 10" from the Nemesis away and never in his front firing Arc. (In the entire Battle it was only 5 times in the Front firing Arc in the first three, 7`th and in the last round.)
Suprise, the most crits score the Light Multi-Phased Cutters and not the Missiles.
I must confess if the Nemesis hasn´t scored these good crits I think ,the Octurion has got him to Skeleton Crew. In only 5 round it decimated the Crew of the Nemesis by 50 Crewmen.
Goldritter
Mongoose
The most frutrating was, that the Octurion was always more then 10" away and on the sides. The Nemesis can´t use it´s side Weapons and the Octurion had used it´s Matter Cannon.
And if he was at 10" he had the first schots with its Twin-Particel Arrays and Matter Cannons.
I was glad, that he don´t score as much more crits.
And if he was at 10" he had the first schots with its Twin-Particel Arrays and Matter Cannons.
I was glad, that he don´t score as much more crits.
Goldritter
Mongoose
And I think, that the main Gun of the Nemesis and Warlock should get 8 AD insteat of the 6 AD.
The Barrel for the gun is as long as the Entire Ship.
The Barrel for the gun is as long as the Entire Ship.
well adira gets 8 dice altho thats only DD. the brivoki gets 8AD TD but slow loading as well as another 8AD beam, that things quite a monster, as both beams are front rather than boresighted. the ka'bintak only gets 4AD on its TD weapon but 6 on the other beam so guess you have a good argument for 8AD on the nemesis.
one thing that surprises me about the nemesis is it has no command rating.
one thing that surprises me about the nemesis is it has no command rating.
Goldritter
Mongoose
Yes that wonder me too.
Ad it´s a strong disatvantage to have a boresight weapon.
And it is only a feeling or have the EA ships on Armageddon Level realy a lower Firepower as other Armageddon Level Ships and even War Level Ships ?
I´ve looked at the Ka`Bin`Tak and the G`Vran. Or even the Vree Z'Takk is real Monster 16 AD Super AP.
Ad it´s a strong disatvantage to have a boresight weapon.
And it is only a feeling or have the EA ships on Armageddon Level realy a lower Firepower as other Armageddon Level Ships and even War Level Ships ?
I´ve looked at the Ka`Bin`Tak and the G`Vran. Or even the Vree Z'Takk is real Monster 16 AD Super AP.
well after your play test of the nemesis versus an octurion i put it against one its own level - the adira
the adira has a +3 to command giving it +6 overall comepared to the EA +2. unsurprisingly in the 4 turns its took the EA didnt win any init.
1st turn was just missiles versus centauri beam
the centauri beam put out a nice bit of damage but no crits (14 damage)
the missiles crit the power causing fluctuations of the adira meaning it could only fire on a 4+. this was the only damage done to the adira.
the nemesis repaired 6 of its hull
turn 2
the distance closes and with all fighters now launched the dogfights begin. taking down 2 rutarions this turn for 2 losses of their own from the thunderbolts.
then the adira manages to overcome the power loss to fire its beam causing a further 16 damage and taking out the engines of the nemesis (spd 0, no SA). unfortunately the adira cannot route power to any other weapons.
the nemesis returns fire getting a measly 4 damage through the geg with its missiles and heavy phasing pulse.
in the end phase the adira repairs its power fluctuations and the nemesis repairs 4 hull.
turn 3
knowing where the nemesis will be the adira floats gently forward and concentrates all fire on it. the remaining rutarians gang up on the remaining thunderbolts killing them both for only 1 loss.
now its the adiras time, fortunately it was CAFed as the beam got a whole 2 hits before CAF then 5 after which in turn became 8. with 2 crits both on the crew table and one being a 5/6 the nemesis was lokoing in trouble, only 9 away from being skeletoned and the secondaries of the adira yet to fire. 1st went the twin arrays taking down all the interceptors and causing another 4 and 2 more crew from -1AD crits damage, then the matter canons took things into their own hands causing another 7 damage taking the nemesis to skeleton crew levels.
the nemesis shocked by this display of fire couldnt manage to get any hits through the adiras GEG. and only managed to repair one point of hull in the end phase and failed its repair of crit roll due to the skeleton crew.
turn 4
the end is in sight. the adira all stops and points its guns down the nemesis' throat. with the beam causing another 7 hits the remaining crew had been wiped out, altho the ship itself wasnt in too bad a shape, time to study shadow tech and repaint the scratches done to the adiras hull.
looking at it the nemesis really isnt good enough to be an armageddon ship. yes the adira is good but its right for that level as the victory and adira are fairly evenly matched altho the vic has the slight edge. the nemesis wouldnt be able to take either. it needs more damage and especially more crew, more firepower and a command rating as this is a huge downfall for a boresighted ship of that level.
the adira has a +3 to command giving it +6 overall comepared to the EA +2. unsurprisingly in the 4 turns its took the EA didnt win any init.
1st turn was just missiles versus centauri beam
the centauri beam put out a nice bit of damage but no crits (14 damage)
the missiles crit the power causing fluctuations of the adira meaning it could only fire on a 4+. this was the only damage done to the adira.
the nemesis repaired 6 of its hull
turn 2
the distance closes and with all fighters now launched the dogfights begin. taking down 2 rutarions this turn for 2 losses of their own from the thunderbolts.
then the adira manages to overcome the power loss to fire its beam causing a further 16 damage and taking out the engines of the nemesis (spd 0, no SA). unfortunately the adira cannot route power to any other weapons.
the nemesis returns fire getting a measly 4 damage through the geg with its missiles and heavy phasing pulse.
in the end phase the adira repairs its power fluctuations and the nemesis repairs 4 hull.
turn 3
knowing where the nemesis will be the adira floats gently forward and concentrates all fire on it. the remaining rutarians gang up on the remaining thunderbolts killing them both for only 1 loss.
now its the adiras time, fortunately it was CAFed as the beam got a whole 2 hits before CAF then 5 after which in turn became 8. with 2 crits both on the crew table and one being a 5/6 the nemesis was lokoing in trouble, only 9 away from being skeletoned and the secondaries of the adira yet to fire. 1st went the twin arrays taking down all the interceptors and causing another 4 and 2 more crew from -1AD crits damage, then the matter canons took things into their own hands causing another 7 damage taking the nemesis to skeleton crew levels.
the nemesis shocked by this display of fire couldnt manage to get any hits through the adiras GEG. and only managed to repair one point of hull in the end phase and failed its repair of crit roll due to the skeleton crew.
turn 4
the end is in sight. the adira all stops and points its guns down the nemesis' throat. with the beam causing another 7 hits the remaining crew had been wiped out, altho the ship itself wasnt in too bad a shape, time to study shadow tech and repaint the scratches done to the adiras hull.
looking at it the nemesis really isnt good enough to be an armageddon ship. yes the adira is good but its right for that level as the victory and adira are fairly evenly matched altho the vic has the slight edge. the nemesis wouldnt be able to take either. it needs more damage and especially more crew, more firepower and a command rating as this is a huge downfall for a boresighted ship of that level.
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
From what Katadder's told me the Shadow Omega isn't worth it either.
Hey Katadder, how about testing the other two out against the Adira?
Hey Katadder, how about testing the other two out against the Adira?
Goldritter
Mongoose
Do you think, that the Warlock is an Armageddon Ship ?
The Nemesis isn´t realy one.
I think it will be better to have the Warlock at War and the Nemesis with a better weapon loadout in Armageddon.
I don´t think, that the Nemesis can´t take on one Sharlin. Even with the HEL system.
The Sharlin has the longer range with better firing arc.
I hope Mongoose will sitdown and rethink the Nemesis.
It´s a cool model but in a fight rather useless.
The Nemesis isn´t realy one.
I think it will be better to have the Warlock at War and the Nemesis with a better weapon loadout in Armageddon.
I don´t think, that the Nemesis can´t take on one Sharlin. Even with the HEL system.
The Sharlin has the longer range with better firing arc.
I hope Mongoose will sitdown and rethink the Nemesis.
It´s a cool model but in a fight rather useless.
