Ship's Brain Interface sizing and use

[Vormaerin]

But none of that is how Traveller is written.

Yes, Leadership is useful for more than just combat, but it is distributed in Chargen mostly in careers focused on combat. And all of its examples in game are about combat. So expecting characters who don't have a combat career background to have it is impractical.

Also, yes, you could rewrite the game to make Profession (Spacer) and various other Profession skills a thing that actually features in a prominent way. But that's not how it happens in the rules as written. Merchants, Scouts, and Navy don't get Profession.

Yes, IRL, all those Logistics fields are distinct training. But then so is Paramedic, Nurse, Gynecologist, and Neurosurgeon. But not in Traveller, where that is all Steward or Medic, respectively.

Persuade and Diplomat can be used to calm people down, as written. But so can Steward. It's one of the three explicit uses of the skill in the rules:
Calming Down an Angry Duke who has Just Been Told he Will not be Jumping to his Destination on Time:
Difficult (10+) Steward check (1D minutes, SOC).

Skills should not be completely amorphous and mean whatever the player wants. But reading them narrowly when they are not designed narrowly and saying they don't overlap when many of them (especially the social skills) explicitly overlap, is not a good idea, IMHO.

 

[swordtart]

But none of that is how Traveller is written.

Yes, Leadership is useful for more than just combat, but it is distributed in Chargen mostly in careers focused on combat. And all of its examples in game are about combat. So expecting characters who don't have a combat career background to have it is impractical.

It is used in non combat contexts in scenarios (e.g. Great Rift Adventures 1-5 p203 "Average (8+) Leadership check (SOC) to rally the
Shunned around the Travellers." so the combat context is simply the most obvious use (some fo the skill use examples are a bit obvious and lazy). You don't have to expect characters to have it a skill to be able to need a skill check. Sometimes Travellers fail because they don't have (or think to use) the right skill.

Also, yes, you could rewrite the game to make Profession (Spacer) and various other Profession skills a thing that actually features in a prominent way. But that's not how it happens in the rules as written. Merchants, Scouts, and Navy don't get Profession.

Companion expands on those skills. Profession-0 is a background skill. It is just being employable for fetching and carrying. Profession(Spacer) is just a context. Deckhands don't get deckhand as a skill because the ability to do as you are told isn't a skill, it is a mindset.

Yes, IRL, all those Logistics fields are distinct training. But then so is Paramedic, Nurse, Gynecologist, and Neurosurgeon. But not in Traveller, where that is all Steward or Medic, respectively.

I see nowhere in the skill description of Steward anything about logistics. I see knowing your place, cooking, tailoring and basic management. I believe we are disagreeing with the conflation of the role and the skills that role has. I believe that the ships Steward role encompasses many skills of which Steward is one.

Persuade and Diplomat can be used to calm people down, as written. But so can Steward. It's one of the three explicit uses of the skill in the rules:
Calming Down an Angry Duke who has Just Been Told he Will not be Jumping to his Destination on Time:
Difficult (10+) Steward check (1D minutes, SOC).

You will have missed perhaps that I refer to this exact use in my post. This case of persuasion is directly related to the passenger function on the ship. It presumably refer to the basic management element of the role (and knowing your place). This is the last resort of customer service so it is fair use. Steward skill would not be any use in Calming down an angry Duke who has just been told that you broke windows whilst playing football at his palace.

Skills should not be completely amorphous and mean whatever the player wants. But reading them narrowly when they are not designed narrowly and saying they don't overlap when many of them (especially the social skills) explicitly overlap, is not a good idea, IMHO.

I am not sure that multiple ways to achieve the similar outcome is equivalent to overlapping. To get to a city I can Fly an Air Raft, Drive an ATV or catch a train. The outcome is the same, but the skills used are very different and not at all interchangeable.

Carousing with someone to get them on side versus Persuasion or Diplomacy will have a very different specific end results and will depend very much on the existing relationship between the two parties. Even Persuasion is subdivided into wheedling, bluffing and intimidating and others which might have an equivalent effect when persuading someone not to shoot you, but there will be different long term repercussions.

 

[Vormaerin]

It's your table. If you want some skills to be interpreted very narrowly and other skills interpreted broadly, that's fine.

My point about logistics is that no skill in Traveller covers that, but that the real world shipping and navy has all the things Steward covers be in the same cluster has other supplies and logistics management. The officer who controls the cooks, the tailors, the barbers, and the other "hospitality" crew also handles the supply and cargo workers. You could, of course, just say it is part of Admin. Or that it just magically happens. After all, there is no job on a merchant ship that actually deals with this stuff, so maybe in the future it is automatic.

I find the idea that someone would have the skill to calm down an angry person only if that person is angry about a customer service issue, but not if they are angry about something else to be ludicrous. But you are obviously not required to agree.

Anyway, to bring this back on topic for this thread:

There is nothing wrong with Virtual Crew, Robotic Crew, or whatever other automation you want to include. I, personally, think that if you don't have a player who wants to be the person interacting with passengers, you probably shouldn't feature passengers in your campaign. If I was going to automate any role on a ship, it would be the Astrogator (which is how it was in CT). But, amusingly, that's the one role that is not allowed to be automated.

 

[Terry Mixon]

It's your table. If you want some skills to be interpreted very narrowly and other skills interpreted broadly, that's fine.

My point about logistics is that no skill in Traveller covers that, but that the real world shipping and navy has all the things Steward covers be in the same cluster has other supplies and logistics management. The officer who controls the cooks, the tailors, the barbers, and the other "hospitality" crew also handles the supply and cargo workers. You could, of course, just say it is part of Admin. Or that it just magically happens. After all, there is no job on a merchant ship that actually deals with this stuff, so maybe in the future it is automatic.

I find the idea that someone would have the skill to calm down an angry person only if that person is angry about a customer service issue, but not if they are angry about something else to be ludicrous. But you are obviously not required to agree.

Anyway, to bring this back on topic for this thread:

There is nothing wrong with Virtual Crew, Robotic Crew, or whatever other automation you want to include. I, personally, think that if you don't have a player who wants to be the person interacting with passengers, you probably shouldn't feature passengers in your campaign. If I was going to automate any role on a ship, it would be the Astrogator (which is how it was in CT). But, amusingly, that's the one role that is not allowed to be automated.

You can always Rule 0 it and let ship’s computers and robots astrogate. I personally think the whole idea they can’t is ridiculous.

 

[Vormaerin]

You can always Rule 0 it and let ship’s computers and robots astrogate. I personally think the whole idea they can’t is ridiculous.

You can reasonably assume that I am not actually following the rules as written in my campaign when they don't work for me. I prefer to discuss topics on the forum within the context of the written rules, however, as they provide a common basis for discussion.

The actual rule against virtual astrogation is unique to Mongoose. I started a conversation about the origin of this concept a year or two ago and the upshot was one of the freelancers slipped it into a sourcebook and Geir, being pretty diligent, spotted it and included it in the Robot Handbook.

 

[Terry Mixon]

You can reasonably assume that I am not actually following the rules as written in my campaign when they don't work for me. I prefer to discuss topics on the forum within the context of the written rules, however, as they provide a common basis for discussion.

The actual rule against virtual astrogation is unique to Mongoose. I started a conversation about the origin of this concept a year or two ago and the upshot was one of the freelancers slipped it into a sourcebook and Geir, being pretty diligent, spotted it and included it in the Robot Handbook.

Maybe @MongooseMatt, @MongooseChris, and @Geir will slip it back out. It’s jarring, overly woo-woo, and nonsensical. Just like the ship have negatives to jump when there is no sentient aboard. Both of those need to go.

 

[Condottiere]

Administration could have specializations.

One of which could be logistics.

Getting people to do things, could be any combination of intimidation, bribery, cajoling, authority, and/or persuasion.

 

[Vormaerin]

We don't need more specializations. Traveller is stingy with skills as it is. If anything, we need some existing specializations (looking at you, Engineering and Athletics) condensed into just the base skill again.