Why is the Nemesis an Armageddon Level Ship ?

[Voronesh]

Ok this aint aboput the Nemesis only.....

But having looked at the new ships, i have quite a few concerns.

LONAW stuff looks good. The Vree one looks the most tasty of the 3.

Warlock looks the best of EA armageddon ships. The Shadow Omega seems very poo for its lvl.

Adira looks evry good, the GEG3 makes it really great. The Liati looks ok at war lvl, its only problem is the glaring absence of dodge capable ships in battle to armageddon lvls.

Same goes for the WS Gunship. The Carrier looks like a relaly fine ship. All round firepower makes it a mainstay when you dont wanna bring the VCD.

Neroon, well we know its poo.

Narn stuff looks kinda semi. The Ka'Bin'Tak seems underwhelming compared to two Bin'Taks. The G'Vrahn suffers the want to do too much problem. It has long ranged firepower and great speed and maneuverability. It can bring its firepower to bear practically always. But it does not have the same dont go there feeling of the Bin'Tak. Its a fast sniper.....

 

[katadder]

well the shadow omega is pointless testing against the adira cos this ship is actually worse than the nemesis, doesnt have missiles.

the warlock would have a better chance with the +2 command as well as having 14 more crew than a nemesis. it also has slightly more weapons to the front but still cant see it beating an adira or victory..

i think the EA armageddon ships would have problems with the boombox too due to its high damage and interceptros plus all those forward gun and gravtion shifters.


the nemesis and warlock should have their damage and crew upped to around 120 as that seems to be the average on armageddon ships apart from the vic but then that has AA and tha ka'bin'tak which just has loads of crew but then thats the narn for you.

 

[Voronesh]

Yep.

Thats what i though too.

EA doesnt cut it. And they even got 3 Armageddon lvl ships.....

 

[Triggy]

I think the Nemesis would be fine if:
-its crew rating was higher than its damage so that its self-repair had even a chance to affect the game
-it's part of a fleet that allows it a slightly better chance to use its main gun
If these happened then it would be a decent choice. Unfortunately, the crew change will not happen any time soon and to play a game with much more than an Armageddon ship involved will be a rare occurence.

The Shadow Omega is almost a joke for the PL. It should be War and at War it's perfectly balanced!!!

 

[Goldritter]

I think I use the tournament (SFOS) Warlock at War level in my campaigns (and ignore the Nemesis).

The best ship now on the EA Arsenal is the Marathon and so I don´t need a Armageddon Ship.

If I ever play on Armageddon Level I choice one Poseidon and then as much Marathon and Omegas as possible.
And then try to round up the fleet with Hyperions and a few Chronos.


I hope Mongoose will change the Nemesis in the future and bring better War Level Ships. The Omega Command is a joke for a War Level Ship, the Warlock (and the Shadow Omega) was better.

 

[Goldritter]

What do you thin about following stats for the Nemesis
(changes in Bolt)


Nemesis-class Advanced Destroyer
Class/PL : Nemesis / Armageddon
Troops : 3
Speed : 8
In Service : 2268+
Turns : 1 / 45°
Craft : 4 Thunderbolts


Hull : 6
Special Rules : Advanced Jump Point
Flight Computer
Interceptors 6
Self-Repairing 1d6
HEL


Damage : 95 / 18
Crew : 120 / 25


Molecular Slicer Beam 40" B 8 AD
Beam
Super AP
Triple Damage

Heavy Phasing Pulse Cannon 15" F 12 AD
AP
Double Damage


Light Multi-Phased Cutter 12" P 10 AD
AP
Mini-Beam
Twin-Linked

Light Multi-Phased Cutter 12" S 10 AD
AP
Mini-Beam
Twin-Linked

Light Multi-Phased Cutter 12" A 10 AD
AP
Mini-Beam
Twin-Linked

Missile Racks 30" F 6 AD
Precise
Slow-Loading*
Super AP


I think the HEL should be a trait so it can be lost if the Ship is crippled.

 

[Triggy]

What do you thin about following stats for the Nemesis
(changes in Bolt)


Nemesis-class Advanced Destroyer
Class/PL : Nemesis / Armageddon
Troops : 3
Speed : 8
In Service : 2268+
Turns : 1 / 45°
Craft : 4 Thunderbolts


Hull : 6
Special Rules : Advanced Jump Point
Flight Computer
Interceptors 6
Self-Repairing 1d6
HEL


Damage : 110 / 18
Crew : 120 / 16


Molecular Slicer Beam 40" B 8 AD
Beam
Super AP
Triple Damage

Heavy Phasing Pulse Cannon 15" F 10 AD
AP
Double Damage

Heavy Phasing Pulse Cannon 15" A 8 AD
AP
Double Damage

Light Multi-Phased Cutter 12" P 10 AD
AP
Mini-Beam
Twin-Linked

Light Multi-Phased Cutter 12" S 10 AD
AP
Mini-Beam
Twin-Linked

Light Multi-Phased Cutter 12" A 10 AD
AP
Mini-Beam
Twin-Linked

Missile Racks 30" F 6 AD
Precise
Slow-Loading*
Super AP


I think the HEL should be a trait so it can be lost if the Ship is crippled.

Not too bad but IMO it's overdoing the number of changes needed. Just change the crew to 120/25 and let the self-repair take care of the damage side of things.

 

[Goldritter]

Changed the Damage Score.
Now better ?

 

[katadder]

yep, i think it needed 2 extra AD on almost all weapons, altho no aft facing heavy phasing pulse tho, no need in theory.

 

[Goldritter]

In the fight aginst the Octurion it would be nice if the Nemesis had a rear firing weapon.

Espacily because the Octurion want to get up to 10" to use its Twin-Particle Arrays. And in the next round the ships were rear to rear.

 

[Goldritter]

Changed the Crew to 125 / 25.

 

[Locutus9956]

you cant just say it should have a rear firing weapon because it would help it against such and such a ship. Thats the route to creating 'God ships' that have no weakness and are for all extents and purposes unbeatable. The larger EA ships generally have weaker other arcs to balance out the INSANE firepower of their main forward weaponry (and quite rightly so). I agree that the Nemesis could do with the crew increase and I DEFINITELY agree that the HEL should be a trait just like scout etc but thats about it. If you start trying to improve every bit of the ship to correct its potnential slight weakness you soon end up with a monster that has become far TOO powerful.

 

[Alexb83]

Do you think, that the Warlock is an Armageddon Ship ?

The Nemesis isn´t realy one.

I think it will be better to have the Warlock at War and the Nemesis with a better weapon loadout in Armageddon.

I don´t think, that the Nemesis can´t take on one Sharlin. Even with the HEL system.

The Sharlin has the longer range with better firing arc.

I hope Mongoose will sitdown and rethink the Nemesis.

It´s a cool model but in a fight rather useless.

Hangon, going by the nemesis stats from S&P, the Nemesis outranges the Sharlin with its beam (40 inches?) It also benefits from the EA +2 initiative in the Crusade era, has HEL and is far, far tougher than a Sharlin.
A standard sharlin has 30 inch beam range, and IIRC Neutron cannons aren't as good as the beam on the Nemesis (only one up is precise vs triple damage, not precise on the nemesis beam). Also, the nemesis is faster and has hull 6, self repair etc. etc. etc.

Looking at the Neroon, it's not particularly astounding. The enhanced neutron beams and the massive fighter capacity are great, but it's still hull 5.

 

[H]

Do you think, that the Warlock is an Armageddon Ship ?

The Nemesis isn´t realy one.

I think it will be better to have the Warlock at War and the Nemesis with a better weapon loadout in Armageddon.

I don´t think, that the Nemesis can´t take on one Sharlin. Even with the HEL system.

The Sharlin has the longer range with better firing arc.

I hope Mongoose will sitdown and rethink the Nemesis.

It´s a cool model but in a fight rather useless.

Hangon, going by the nemesis stats from S&P, the Nemesis outranges the Sharlin with its beam (40 inches?) It also benefits from the EA +2 initiative in the Crusade era, has HEL and is far, far tougher than a Sharlin.
A standard sharlin has 30 inch beam range, and IIRC Neutron cannons aren't as good as the beam on the Nemesis (only one up is precise vs triple damage, not precise on the nemesis beam). Also, the nemesis is faster and has hull 6, self repair etc. etc. etc.

Looking at the Neroon, it's not particularly astounding. The enhanced neutron beams and the massive fighter capacity are great, but it's still hull 5.

I think you are missing the point here. EA players love to complain. ;-)

 

[Goldritter]

Not every time .

But I don´t see, that the Nemesis is a real enemy for Minbari ships.
I like the Idea, that EA ships are slow and not so manouverable.
And that the EA ships have mainly Boresight weapons is fluff and is not a reason for my complain.

The Minbari have the advantage, that they have a Front firing weapon with the precise trait which is realy good. And the Nemesis only weapon against the Minbari is it´s main weapon, which is a boresight weapon and can only beffective be used if the EA has the initative.

All other weapons on the Nemesis are 12" and 10" which are too short to threaten the Minbari which have 18" with their secondary weapons.
And for a ship which is was only designed to be used against Minbari it´s interesting, that its secondary weponas have a shorter range as the secondarys on the Warlock.

And the Advantage of fast is removed, if you first think, that the Nemesis must fly 4,5" before it can turn. This was one of the reasons I can´t use the side and aft weapons in the fight against the Octurion, because the Nemesis must first fly this distance to get the turn and the Octurion can then add his 6"-9" so that he´s out of range of the Nemesis weapons, but can attack with his weapons.
And without a turn you can´t use the main weapon properly.

 

[Goldritter]

Removed the Aft firing Pulse Weapon. And reduced the AD for the front firing back to 12.

So it´s not the "übership" .

 

[Alexb83]

Why wasn't the nemesis coming hard about to bring its weapons to bear? Military grade crew, on a 5+, that extra 45 degrees would make all the difference

 

[Goldritter]

The Problem is the Initative.
The Nemesis must move before the Octurion and the Adira every time.
So if he had the enemy ship in Boresight, it must only move 1" and so the Nemsis can´t fire its mainweapon.

The biggest problem in my test game, was, that the Octurion makes a crit on the Bridge so that the Nemesis can´t do any SA.

 

[H]

Not every time .

But I don´t see, that the Nemesis is a real enemy for Minbari ships.
I like the Idea, that EA ships are slow and not so manouverable.
And that the EA ships have mainly Boresight weapons is fluff and is not a reason for my complain.

The Minbari have the advantage, that they have a Front firing weapon with the precise trait which is realy good. And the Nemesis only weapon against the Minbari is it´s main weapon, which is a boresight weapon and can only beffective be used if the EA has the initative.

All other weapons on the Nemesis are 12" and 10" which are too short to threaten the Minbari which have 18" with their secondary weapons.
And for a ship which is was only designed to be used against Minbari it´s interesting, that its secondary weponas have a shorter range as the secondarys on the Warlock.

And the Advantage of fast is removed, if you first think, that the Nemesis must fly 4,5" before it can turn. This was one of the reasons I can´t use the side and aft weapons in the fight against the Octurion, because the Nemesis must first fly this distance to get the turn and the Octurion can then add his 6"-9" so that he´s out of range of the Nemesis weapons, but can attack with his weapons.
And without a turn you can´t use the main weapon properly.

Where does it say the nemesis was designed to fight Minbari? both EA and minbari are members of the ISA, just because it "could" be used against a stealthy ship, doesn't mean it's primary role was to kill Boneheads?. and also, it suffers these drawbacks, because at the end of the day, the Minbari have been designing starships since Humans were wearing platemail and hitting each other with pointy bits of metal

 

[katadder]

and the minbari cant keep at range against a speed 9 ship anyway.