Why does mongoose release an incomplete game?

Take the time related factor of "release date" out of the equation. All that release date means when you will get the stats for you to plan your army. If you are patient enough, and hold off on buying for a while, you can effectively plan your army at no cost to yourself. This requires patience though, and shouldn't be a big deal. Remember that you don't actually need the game, especially so if you aren't interested in the units currently available (and thus would find the gameplay somewhat boring because of that).

The argument that army lists in books provide army planning an all future planning is a bit faulty because such books only provide you with the army for that time. No player knows about future units planned in future books, or about any future changes to current units in those books.

For example, War Machine is constantly releasing new books, rules, and recently updated some older units with different rules to rebalance them. A Khador army from the first or second books has changed dramatically since the third book has come out.

Not that I don't understand your concern and desire for full army lists. It's just that I don't see what the big deal is considering that eventually I'll have all that information in my hands.

I'm actually regretting my decision to buy into BFE early with two infantry squads and a tank. Much of the gameplay I'm looking for will be in the advanced rulebook and other special units coming out in the future. So yes, I also desire an army list, not so much to plan purchases, but to see whether I like the future rules and whether the advance rules add enough depth for me to continue buying.

But, since to get these things, all I have to do is just step away from the game for a bit, work on other productive things while the releases come out each month. Then, when I'm ready to get back into the game I can go from there.
 
well... here is my 2 cents

i would prefer to have the army lists as soon as i can, so i can plan my list etc, but then again, if it means that every unit will be more balanced, im not going to complain... :D
 
i think in a year or so's time an army book may apear but its use will be to balance things out with exsperaince from gamers and maybe a few army specific missions thay can do, ie brits may have a capture the hill, while the mea maybe to sabotage an enemy tank for example.

this issue with pla points being a bit of could be resolved with n army book, although after a year of pla defeats due to unjust point values i think the army book for them may be a bit late, but could pull people back in again.
 
From a business perspective releasing the stats en masse can have a negative result on sales. People get impatient in waiting for minis to release and buy proxies. 3-6 months later when the minis release they don't buy them, because they've used proxies so long, what's the point. I'm sure that has at least something to do with the difference in Victory at Sea and BF:Evo. Mongoose had no intention of doing VaS minis and therefore can't suffer a hit on mini sales.


Personally, I don't care either way on the unit stats. It's nice to have a preview, but won't break the game for me. If I were Mongoose, I'd consider releasing semi "unofficial" stats ASAP to allow the masses to playtest things beyond the smaller core group of playtesters. This will allow you to view feedback on the forums and refine cards/stats. You could then "officially" release stats 4-6 weeks prior to the mini hitting the store. I think the trade off in slightly lower sales is worth having a refined game with less errata and lower potential for the need to "balance the game" through stat revisions at a later time.
 
[/quote]
EXACTLY. Pilgrim, if you've never encountered this before then I've got to wonder how many games have you gotten in on at the very beginning - it's very seldom that a breand new game has a full range of minis from the get-go[/quote]

Bloody hundreds

I have a gaming room in my house with a 12 foot gaming table and currently the lord only knows how many armies painted and ready to go. Yes, I'm OLD or at least over 40 :oops: , and yes this puts me in a better position than most, and yes I have been gaming for 30 odd years and you know what? that makes my opinion worth exactly the same as yours - bugger all.

What does somewhat annoy me is that you seem to think that shouting down someone else because their opinion is different to yours is somehow acceptable, or that a difference of opinion is "childlike selfishness". Do me a favour, walk into a bar and try it.
 
My personal opinion on this is that it also gives us as a company the room to randomly decide to create new units when we want to, rather than having to plan them according to the next book release.

Freedom of unit design can mean the difference between releasing one sourcebook every year or two with official stats in it (Privateer Press) or waiting for army lists for years (Games Workshop).

I don't think there is anything wrong with any release style exactly, but I actually prefer the ability to design and release as we want to, not because of some book publish date.

Back to work for me,
Bry
 
There are pros and cons for everything.

I'm of the opinion that whatever works, works! :lol:

There is no wrong or right answer here.

I applaud Mongoose for doing it a bit differently, although it has to be said, i do like the fluff in army books. :wink:
 
I think the thing is, theres nothing wrong with this release schedual per se if it all goes to plan, but when theres deleys and hold ups on every release, and no new unit stats released till the models finally appear on the shelves it kinda looses sight of its original aim...

A modular game with two units per faction each and every month = good
A modular game with two units per faction every 3-4 months = not so good..

Obviously mongoose will have it all sorted eventually, but it seems as if a few severe bottle necks have been met in production at possibly the worst point for it to happen, increasing the time that the inferior first wave releases are the sole exposure for new players and causing supply shortfalls for the players that actually want to buy in...
I hope all this is sorted by the time SST is wheeled out...
 
PilGrim said:
What does somewhat annoy me is that you seem to think that shouting down someone else because their opinion is different to yours is somehow acceptable, or that a difference of opinion is "childlike selfishness". Do me a favour, walk into a bar and try it.
If we lived in a wet county and I had a bar to fight in, I might. ;) The childlike behavior isn't in the difference of opinion. It's in the petty arguing over things that can't be changed. You are more than welcome to your opinion and have the freedom to express it just as it is my right to express mine.

My opinion is that bitching about the lack of models and that releases are too slow is going to do nothing to speed the release of the game up. Complaining that you'd like it to have been released like [this] won't float either because it's too late. If it were the approach of... next time for SST I'd suggest XYZ, great. But general complaints or simply identifying problems is not constructive criticism. Constructive criticism is "you have this problem here. Perhaps it would be better if you did ___."

oy.

I'm done.

At this point I've done nothing but offend folks, so I'm sorry to have stomped on your toes. I withdraw my original comments and admit I should have just shut my mouth and rolled on and let the rants/fits work themselves out.
 
Don't make me summon the guards, Armchair...

31814287bk2.jpg
 
PilGrim said:
EXACTLY. Pilgrim, if you've never encountered this before then I've got to wonder how many games have you gotten in on at the very beginning - it's very seldom that a breand new game has a full range of minis from the get-go

Bloody hundreds

I have a gaming room in my house with a 12 foot gaming table and currently the lord only knows how many armies painted and ready to go. Yes, I'm OLD or at least over 40 :oops: , and yes this puts me in a better position than most, and yes I have been gaming for 30 odd years and you know what? that makes my opinion worth exactly the same as yours - bugger all.

What does somewhat annoy me is that you seem to think that shouting down someone else because their opinion is different to yours is somehow acceptable, or that a difference of opinion is "childlike selfishness". Do me a favour, walk into a bar and try it.

If you honestly think I've been trying to shout you or anyone else down, then I apologise, that certainly wasn't my intention. But my point is still valid - very few minis games launch with more than a nominal selection of minis availible.
 
Relax

My problems just intensified as my hard drive went kaput. Spending the evening rebuilding the pc has put any grudges or gripes to do with evo in perspective.

Pax
 
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