alex_greene
Guest
Sometimes, the Emperor plants a Noble on a planet because it's cheaper than sending a flag all the way from Capital. The Noble is already there.
Who actually rules a planet?
- Thread starter mb345345
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I figure that the noble titles are mostly a matter of prestige and only loosely tied to feudal concepts, mainly in terms of precedence and some ceremonial stuff. In practice they're just a network of fancifully-named administrators who have to deal in a lot of politics and bureaucracy. Some are better at it than others. Specific worlds or clusters of worlds get delegated to a lower-ranking noble because it's a full-time (in theory) job in itself and the next guy up the chain only has so much time and attention to go around.
Sure, there are also nobles who get appointed to things just to get them out of the way, for ceremonial reasons, or as an honor (kind of like knighthoods in the modern UK, or the Order of Canada there). Those nobles probably don't do much officially (or if they do, it's mostly a formality), although their personal reputation or connections might give them unofficial importance.
Sure, there are also nobles who get appointed to things just to get them out of the way, for ceremonial reasons, or as an honor (kind of like knighthoods in the modern UK, or the Order of Canada there). Those nobles probably don't do much officially (or if they do, it's mostly a formality), although their personal reputation or connections might give them unofficial importance.
alex_greene
Guest
Those would be the honour nobles, as compared to the rank nobles. Honour nobles just receive a title; rank nobles inherit their title under a Patent issued by the Emperor at the time. Some Patents extend centuries, but (officially) there are no Patents predating Year 0).
Gods, I am so loving The Third Imperium. It's better reading than Asimov's Foundation. Christopher Griffen did a masterly job.
Sure, but the noble doesn't govern anything or actually have a job resulting from the title.
William the Conqueror, Duke of Normandy, actually governed the province of Normandy and had vassals delegated to governing portions of it. That's the medieval version. Works great for a fantasy campaign. This isn't a fantasy campaign.
Arthur Wellesley, Duke of Wellington, did not govern anything (except when he was elected Prime Minister). The "Duchy of Wellington" is house his family already owned in the town of Wellington. (Technically, his brother bought it so they could name the Ducal title that was about to be created for Arthur after the town, because he liked how close the name was to the family's name.)
I tend to think the latter model is how it works in Traveller.
Emperor: "Woah, good job defeating those Vargr corsair fleets with that ragtag collection of armed freighters you gathered up. Imma gonna make you a Baron. Whatcha wanna be the Baron of?"
New Baron: "Well, I grew up on Crabtree Lane. How about Baron of Crabtree?"
Emperor: "Done!"
The Baron of Crabtree doesn't have any authority in Crabtree. He may not ever even go there. It need not even be an actual location. He gets to vote in the Moots he belongs to, though. Or, more likely, he can trade his proxy for favors or remuneration to someone who does bother to hang out where the Moot meets. And he may get an imperial stipend (aka fief). Which could be in the form of real estate, but probably isn't. Because the Imperium's assets are primarily in trade revenues, not in real estate portfolios.
IMHO.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
It depends on what the purpose of the ennoblement is/was.
Originally, it's a reward for competence and loyalty; or bribe.
Then it's a question of the perquisites you get with it, and the obligations that go along.
Lifetime appointments, it's prestige, possibly with a monetary stipend.
Fiefs might be to anchor the clan in the locality, and gain the locals' loyalty to the Imperium by proxy, or more likely, keep them under surveillance and control.
Originally, it's a reward for competence and loyalty; or bribe.
Then it's a question of the perquisites you get with it, and the obligations that go along.
Lifetime appointments, it's prestige, possibly with a monetary stipend.
Fiefs might be to anchor the clan in the locality, and gain the locals' loyalty to the Imperium by proxy, or more likely, keep them under surveillance and control.
I don't think I have any issue with a Duke tbh, they're in charge raising taxes, raising an army from the systems and possibly allocating some imperial resources. But Counts do puzzle me; they have a fief of a few systems but literally no power over them. For all the good it does them they could a fief of 60 systems! Referring back to some answers in the thread they are likely regarded as a "representative" of the Emperor and so are likely accorded a deal of political respect amongst their fiefdom, but if a system actually snubbed them there's little they could do
Is there a supplement (any edition) where these are discussed?
WHULorigan
Cosmic Mongoose
*THIS*
And this is why most people have difficulty understanding the nobility structure of the Third Imperium: They fail to grasp this concept. Noble title is a social distinction. Depending upon its level of rank, it may qualify you to hold a given governmental position, but in no way guarantees such an appointment. The "Subsector Duke" is a "Duke" who happens to have been appointed "Subsector Governor".
CordwainerFish
Emperor Mongoose
The Warrant of Restoration is mentioned here and there in The Third Imperium.
IMTU the Third Imperium is like the United Kingdom; it very much has constitutional law but it does not have a Constitution.
(IMTU the 3I bears a slight resemblance to Aubrey & Maturin meet Gilbert and Sullivan.)
AnotherDilbert
Emperor Mongoose
Yes, p83+.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Dukes are actually expected to serve as administrators.
You might call it a working title.
You might call it a working title.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
Working nobles are part of the Noble career.
Once a noble musters out as a Traveller you need to come up with a reason why they are no longer running their feif - whatever it is.
I have always gone with the Imperial noble on a planet will be the local representative of the subsector duke and will have administration of the starport.
There are very few worlds in the Imperium that are rules directly by Imperial nobles - even the Duke of Regina doesn't actually rule Regina for example.
Once a noble musters out as a Traveller you need to come up with a reason why they are no longer running their feif - whatever it is.
I have always gone with the Imperial noble on a planet will be the local representative of the subsector duke and will have administration of the starport.
There are very few worlds in the Imperium that are rules directly by Imperial nobles - even the Duke of Regina doesn't actually rule Regina for example.
I don't want to repeat the stuff I posted in IMTU thread to much, but yes, the senior manager of a good starport or collection of marginal starports is a titled position in my campaign. Ambassadors to foreign polities. Obviously, Admirals, Generals, and that sort of thing.
Lots of "working nobles". But the titles themselves don't generally have any authority except being in the House of Lords. Arthur Wellesly got into position to be a badass commander because he was a wealthy aristocrat, but he didn't actually have a title until get got his own for winning wars. His father's title (Earl of Mornington) went to his older brother (and that title was created for his father because of his father's artistic and philanthropic activities)
Lots of "working nobles". But the titles themselves don't generally have any authority except being in the House of Lords. Arthur Wellesly got into position to be a badass commander because he was a wealthy aristocrat, but he didn't actually have a title until get got his own for winning wars. His father's title (Earl of Mornington) went to his older brother (and that title was created for his father because of his father's artistic and philanthropic activities)
Thanks, it's starting to click now. It's pretty misleading having giving mere titles an apparent territory of authority, whereas it's really just like the British title system, Earl of Wessex, etc
Amusingly, the Earldom of Wessex was actually a medieval title that controlled land at one point.
I actually, think it is more like Petrine Russia's Table of Ranks (Where having certain jobs in government makes you a noble of a certain rank). But that's a lot more obscure and more difficult to explain in a short post than the modern British peerage.
I actually, think it is more like Petrine Russia's Table of Ranks (Where having certain jobs in government makes you a noble of a certain rank). But that's a lot more obscure and more difficult to explain in a short post than the modern British peerage.
CordwainerFish
Emperor Mongoose
thanksAmusingly, the Earldom of Wessex was actually a medieval title that controlled land at one point.
I actually, think it is more like Petrine Russia's Table of Ranks (Where having certain jobs in government makes you a noble of a certain rank). But that's a lot more obscure and more difficult to explain in a short post than the modern British peerage.
either way, I don't think the (Imperium) guys below duke hold much in the way of powerWell, that depends on what else they hold - a knight who reached the rank of Commodore in the Imperial Navy and has since earned board seats in two separate interstellar corporations might well hold more power than some counts. That power, however, stems from what he owns/has achieved, not from the fact that he has been recognized and knighted. In point of fact, it's rather more likely to have been the other way around - he was probably knighted in recognition of his various achievements... and as a way for the emperor (and the noble hierarchy) to bring him on board, in case they can find a use for someone of these manifest abilities. And while the peerage is looking for a job which might be a good fit, it can also give Sir What's-his-name a back channel for reporting if he happens to come across something he feels the higher-ups need to know about.thanks
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
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