What changes would YOU make to Conan Second Edition?

[Netherek]

In the name of promoting character variety:

1. Attributes - STR's benefits should be brought more in line with DEX's.

2. Race - PCs have all classes as favoured; won't eliminate the world's stereotypes but helps eliminate the PC stereotypes.

3. First level - Change the initial skill ranks to a fixed number (like 20) plus 4xINT Mod. plus one level of first level class. Or, some other method that doesn't encourage taking only a limited number of classes at first level.

4. Class - Major overhaul.

5. Feats - Major overhaul.

6. Weapon stats - Bring the true efficiencies of different close range combat styles into some semblance of balance..

To be honest, you might as well drop OGL if you to that route.

One more shot at trying to explain the problem as I see it: The problem is that a lot of races, classes, feats, and combat styles just aren't worth using not because in absolute terms they are that awful but because in relative terms other options are so much more effective.

It's not a "Why did I build this character?" experience but a "Why didn't I build a different character who is going to be a lot like every other character?" one. As much as personality and experiences could result in differentiated characters, having the rules encourage cookiecutter characters is discouraging.

It's possible to come up with a campaign where the bardiche-wielding, 20 STR, cleaving barbarian is not a good choice. That's not the point. The point is that for most sets of options, one option is clearly superior to the other.

A first level dude with no feats and with a bardiche or greatsword and a 16 STR does 2d10+5 damage and APs most stuff. Add in some seasoning and you have a character who consistently forces massive damage saves. Thieves don't take very long to force them either, though there are times when sneak attack isn't usable. Really, the discrepancy between forcing a MDS and not is so ... uh ... massive that it's easy for someone without at least one of - 2H weapon, Power Attack, Sneak Attack - to be just taking up space in combat.

Sure, you can jump through hoops to try to be as effective (not just in combat) as another character who was built better, but that seems only appealing for people looking for a challenge. For instance, while one character is sinking two feats into being a combat powerhouse and can diversify from there, the character with half a dozen feats to be similarly combat useful doesn't have the ability to diversify and will remain behind the curve in some other area.

Combat is the most obvious place for comparison, but it's the same story elsewhere. Having a high INT out of the gate generates increasing benefits where WIS's, for instance, are static. A lot of noncombat feats effectively don't exist because no one in their right mind would take them because others are so much better.

Now, while trying to bring diversity into characters would be my focus, there's quite a list of individual changes I'd also like to see. I personally despise how codes of honour currently work as they are money for nothing, for instance.

I actually don't have much of an opinion on defensive blast. It seems horribly wrong, but I want to playtest a scholar first or, at least, see enough antagonist scholar abuses of it. I would say that one of the less obvious benefits of it is that it give a real purpose to ranged combat.

And, much like I prefer options in character archetypes, having more options in spells would be more fun - again, diversity.

In response to your Bardich wielding barbie. Umm... there's always the expertise option.

Take a Soldier of equal level using a sword and shield using Combat Expertise. Granted the Barbie could force a MD with one hit, but he has to hit in the first place. Make them level 5, with 16 in all stats.

Barbie has a +8 to hit. Soldier has +8 as well. Barbie has a Dodge of 16, the soldier would have a Parry of 20 (25 with expertise). In a fight the fighter is 50% more like to hit needing an 8 vs. a 12, and if he uses Expertise he is 2x as likely to hit needing a 13 vs. 17.

The system isn't black and white, and it's hard to realize each value without comparing every permutation of the system. It's easy to see how powerful a bardich is, and that is what makes it popular. I think a large problem is that most people take the obvious route instead of thinking about how to counter an opponent that uses a certain method.

I would to see some variations on shield and single handed styles as there is a huge investment in power attack related feats that are really maximized by two handed weapons...

 

[Netherek]

The new edition needs to clarify what weapons can be "set for charge." As it stands RAW it states certain piercing weapons can be readied against a charge under readied actions. Only the pollaxe states under its description that it can be used in that manor.

I believe its assumed that Spears and Pikes may also do this as that is what they can do in D&D. It should be clarified though, not everyone comes to Conan from D&D and wouldn't realize this.

Clarify whether Hunting Bow can be given a Str rating, it's currently not clear.

Include the expanded weapon and armour list from Tito's Trading Post.

I'd like to reitirate the need to boost the effectiveness of Alchemy. Some items do not live up to their literary counterparts such as flame powder.

That's about all I got for now.

 

[kintire]

I don't want to get too heavily into the class debate but I do see a real conceptual difference between a Barbarian from the wilderness and a Borderer who's a frontiersman pushing into that wilderness.

Indeed, but the difference is more cultural than class. If you are operating in the wilderness you need a certain set of skills: Your attitude and outlook may be very different, but that's an RP/Cultural thing rather than class.

if every character can handle every situation then why have a party? and if everything can be handle competently by all classes then why have more than one?

Remove "handled" and replace with "contributed to". A specialised character runs the risk of being irrelevant outside their speciality. That's an interesting challenge if the speciality is skills or approach based (how do I apply my approach to this?) but if it's location based it's dull. If your not in woods, you're not in woods and there's nothing you can do about it. Given that many campaigns wander through a veriety of terrains, and the Borderer's terrain advantages are so specific, in a general campaign the borderer will usually be out of luck.

 

[Majestic7]

I'd like to see some sort of complete reference list of published feats, equipment, spells, classes and so on in an alphabetical order. It would make easier to look for some specific item without having to go through all the books - likewise, it would give more reasons to buy certain books. The listing could include name of the item, short description, name of the book where it can be found and the page number. The list wouldn't be necessary to print, it could just be published on the homepage.

For example, in the equipment/items section there could be alchemical stuff listed separately, one entry could be:

Golden Wine of Xuthal, 1750 sp. Nectar-like liquid that heals wounds and prolongs life. Conan RPG, pg. 228.

Similar entry on feats, just to give another example:

Crushing Grip. Allows character to inflict grapple damage on enemy STR, DEX or CON. Conan RPG, pg. 106.

That should be enough to get the idea. I wish there was that kind of index available already. I guess some fans could make something like that.

 

[Trodax]

* Restrict the Fleet-Footed feat so that it may only be taken once (instead of three times). I always thought it was silly with a guy running around twice as fast as everyone else.

* Two feats that I remember people being confused about how they work are Improved Two-Weapon Combat and Two-Weapon Defense (the thing about shields for TWD). Perhaps they could be written a little more clearly.

* Clarify if you can use the Web of Death feat with any weapon, or only with the weapon for which you have Weapon Focus.

 

[slaughterj]

* Restrict the Fleet-Footed feat so that it may only be taken once (instead of three times). I always thought it was silly with a guy running around twice as fast as everyone else.

Have you found that to be a problem in practice, or just have concerns about the idea? I like the idea of having more than 1 step to the feat, then if someone *really* wants Mr. Speedy, they can get it, and if they are spending a couple of feat slots on this, they aren't exactly building up other combat feats and become a monster...

 

[Sutek]

Yeah, I don't have a problem with it either. If it becomes and issue, start giving all the foes reach weapons so they can get Attacks of Opportunity on Mr Speedy before he even gets where he wants to go...

8)

 

[Trodax]

Have you found that to be a problem in practice, or just have concerns about the idea?

No, never a problem in practice (I've disallowed taking it more than once in my game). I don't think it's overpowered or anything, I just think that the visual I get when imagining it is stupid (I never really liked the super-fast Monk in D&D, either, but that could more be seen as a supernatural ability).

Fleet-Footed + Run is enough for making a really quick runner, faster than that and you're getting into "The Flash"-territory, IMHO. To each their own, though.

 

[Krushnak]

if someone has fleet footed 3 times and the run feat it means they are running 100 metres in just over 6 seconds which really isnt that much faster than the current world record. if it can be almost done in real life than it should be doable in a fantasy world

 

[Trodax]

if someone has fleet footed 3 times and the run feat it means they are running 100 metres in just over 6 seconds which really isnt that much faster than the current world record. if it can be almost done in real life than it should be doable in a fantasy world

:lol: OK, that's true (although that would be a new record by a couple of seconds).
On the other hand, by the same calculations, everbody else in the world (without Fleet-Footed and Run) would run 100 meters in around 17 seconds, which is about the speed of an old lady.

 

[Sutek]

Most people move slowly during a sword fight, or not at all. You have to stay put to sword fight, otherwise you aren't fighting...you're running in circles around another guy with a sword. (lol)

Realistically, it makes no sense. Mechanically it makes perfect sense. In a bttle you'd be concentrating on not moving and fighting. But you can't use the Run feat in combat. Running is a full round action that propells you 3 or 4 times you move rate in a straight line during which you can neither Dodge nor Parry. The first two words of the Run feat are "When running."

8)

 

[Kemper Boyd]

I'd redo of the feat system.

Since there is a limit to how many feats you can have, people only take the ones that are very useful, like Power Attack and such. Practically no one uses the lesser feats, like the ones from the Stygia sourcebook.

I have solved this problem by making a list of primary feats and secondary feats, and every time you get a feat from your level, you also get to pick a secondary feat.

 

[Majestic7]

No, never a problem in practice (I've disallowed taking it more than once in my game). I don't think it's overpowered or anything, I just think that the visual I get when imagining it is stupid (I never really liked the super-fast Monk in D&D, either, but that could more be seen as a supernatural ability).

Talking about visual images - how about the Forest Runner from Across the Thunder River? I can see in my mind a guy running through brambles at 200 ft per round while tracking flawlessly at the same time...

 

[FailedSpotCheck]

I love feats, so if I could bend a Mongoose's ear I would request 1 or 2 more feats for higher level characters, say, over 10th lvl. 8)
Then again, I can homebrew that easily enough. A good system respects the source material (REH), preserves the feel of the world, and flexible enough to allow or even encourage tinkering.

 

[Netherek]

How about bonus feat for level 15 and 20 for favored class? Not really game breaking...

 

[Strom]

Hmm. This is such a great game - it really does capture the setting and flavor of heroic fantasy and the Hyborian Age. Some ideas form my experiences with the game:

I would like to see an official critical fumble and critical damage table - could add some fun.

How about a pick pocket skill - sleight of hand doesn't really fit.

Maneuvers are fun but when you start at 1st level it can take awhile before you can do many of them. Make maneuvers available at any level if you meet the prerequisite attribute(s) minimum(s). That's just an idea - but I would like to see maneuvers available to low level characters.

Better presentation of the rules. Atlantean edition was much better but there is still some work that can be done to make character creation and combat rules easier to understand for D20 novices.

Opps! Gotta run.

 

[Foxworthy]

Realistically, it makes no sense. Mechanically it makes perfect sense. In a bttle you'd be concentrating on not moving and fighting. But you can't use the Run feat in combat. Running is a full round action that propells you 3 or 4 times you move rate in a straight line during which you can neither Dodge nor Parry. The first two words of the Run feat are "When running."

Uhm... what? You can use the run feat in combat, hell it even mentions it in the description of Run in the combat section.

 

[slaughterj]

I'd redo of the feat system.

Since there is a limit to how many feats you can have, people only take the ones that are very useful, like Power Attack and such. Practically no one uses the lesser feats, like the ones from the Stygia sourcebook.

I have solved this problem by making a list of primary feats and secondary feats, and every time you get a feat from your level, you also get to pick a secondary feat.

I agree with you on that, and one simple solution would be for characters to get a feat at each level, rather than at every third level. That fits with Conan characters being "better" in and of themselves, rather than relying on items, and allows people to get some breadth to their characters. As it stands now, I see PCs only taking feats they know will get regular use, such as Improved Initiative, Power Attack, Eyes of the Cat, Cleave, Fleet-Footed, Toughness, etc., rather than a mounted combat or unarmed combat feat which might only get used on an occasional adventure.

 

[Garet]

We have discussed the amount of feats in our 3.5 game. The gm has decided on every two levels instead of every three. Looks good so far, but i'm the highest level at 8th. Being able to pick up secondary feats is really nice. My very seldom played Conan game i may try this, but they are only second level. But its been alot of fun and everybody really likes the conan system

 

[urdinaran]

I'd redo of the feat system.

Since there is a limit to how many feats you can have, people only take the ones that are very useful, like Power Attack and such. Practically no one uses the lesser feats, like the ones from the Stygia sourcebook.

I have solved this problem by making a list of primary feats and secondary feats, and every time you get a feat from your level, you also get to pick a secondary feat.

I've been thnkiing about the same thing myself. There are alot of Feats that never seem to see the light of day; primarily the ones that give you bonuses to skills.