Wearing armor over armor and other questions

[SCKnight14]

Hello everyone, I'm new here, and I've just started Traveller. I have a question about armor. According to Alien Module 2: Vargr, Vargr like to wear armor in pieces mixed together. Is it possible for someone to wear say a HEV suit with a light suit over it?

 

[rust]

The Central Supply Catalogue has rules for Combining Armour on page
132. According to these rules, many (not all) types of armour can be
combined, but they do then protect with a reduced value.

 

[Duroon]

I believe the general rule is you get half value for the armor worn underneath. I don't allow my players to wear any armor under anything else unless the underneath layer is a higher TL cloth armor. Anything else is too bulky.

 

[rinku]

Well, you should allow for Reflec as well, as that is specifically designed to go under cloth and clothing.

I'd allow for something like a flak jacket over most other types of armour, including vacc suits, though it may need to be specially designed to do so. For example, a standard military flak jacket can't just be added to a CEV suit, but one designed as an armour upgrade for that suit could be. Military concerns are not the only consideration and I would expect most civilian vacc suits would have some option for an external durability cover. Even Battledress could have high-threat external plating added (in this case more likely to be directly attached rather than as a jacket). Tank crews have been adding extra armour (improvised or otherwise) ever since tanks were invented.

Also keep in mind that high tech vacc suits *are* in effect clothing and would definitely not prevent having a flak jacket being added.

However, I'd question if cloth could usefully be added under a vacc suit, as I would think it is going to interfere with the life support functions. It would certainly cause issues with an autodoc. Even "clothing" vacc suits would be put on with no or specially designed underwear so that the waste management functions could work.

Rule of thumb: if the armour is designed to fit under or over whatever the character is wearing (clothing, vacc suit etc), then you should allow them all to be combined. In particular, I have no issue with Cloth/Flak plus Reflec.

However, once the *mass* starts to add up, you may want to assess a possible initiative or exhaustion penalty.

 

[BP]

Reminded of the image of a kid excessively bundled up for the winter by the over-protective parent

Extra protection should be an option - along with its relevant drawbacks to mobility (mass), flexibility (mass and bulk) and comfort (i.e. - heat!).

 

[CosmicGamer]

And how about a reduction in functionality such as the outer armors ability to monitor heart rate and medical status, inject drugs and so on.

Cloth armor is probably not designed to regulate body temperature and provide any environmental protection. It could interfere with the ability of any added on armor to properly monitor body temperature and adjust for it.

 

[SCKnight14]

Well, Vargr armor comes in pieces, so it makes sense that they can wear different armors together. So a character who uses different pieces of armor adds up the protection from each armor unit together? For example, a Vargr is wearing a Zurrku-Udhvarr light suit and a TL8 Dhoukha vest would have a protection rating of 4 + 3 = 7?

Here are some more questions:

I was looking at the chaindrive weapons in the Central Supply Catalog supplement, and I didn't see anything about the legal issues of using them. In the d20 Future supplement book, the chainsword (similar to a chaindrive sword) was illegal due to it being so lethal and brutal that even the military was uncomfortable using it. Is this the same in Traveller, or is it up to the GM?

In the Alien Module 2, according to the Life Events table, the Vargr PC can form a romantic relationship with an Ally or Contact. What happens to that NPC? Does the NPC now belong to that player or does the GM still have control over that NPC?

 

[rust]

In the d20 Future supplement book, the chainsword (similar to a chaindrive sword) was illegal due to it being so lethal and brutal that even the military was uncomfortable using it. Is this the same in Traveller, or is it up to the GM?

It is up to the planet's law level and the referee's interpretation of it.

 

[rinku]

Chainswords are a stupid abomination that IMHO have no place in Traveller. Seriously - when is Games Workshop going to sue over CSC?

The Vargr partial armour already has the rules for combining different components - that's what the "fighter sets" etc are. If you add a Dhoukha vest to a Zurrku-Udhvarr suit you get a Dhouka-Laersdheg Warrior suit (which is in fact 7pts). However this isn't a case of layering armour, but seperate coverage area being combined.

 

[apoc527]

Ummmm. Ok. Well, I like chainswords and I've seen them in many more places than GW games. The first being Cyberpunk 2020. I, being new to Traveller and uninvested in the past, think that chain drive blades fit perfectly in the OTU. Why wouldn't they use better melée weapons than four thousand year old bladed weapons?

 

[Fovean]

Chainswords are a stupid abomination that IMHO have no place in Traveller. Seriously - when is Games Workshop going to sue over CSC?

I don't have CSC but I am reminded of the Vibroblade from the old TSR game Star Frontiers... same concept I'm guessing. Pretty standard idea, the old chainsaw refined into a hand-to-hand weapon.

I also do think melee weapons would evolve, but IMTU instead of chainsaws inspired by recent gory video games, I lean towards things like energized alloys and fractal blade edges (additional damage per die).

Having said that, the OTU doesn't really address advanced melee weapons, not in any real sense anyway. They seem like a ceremonial thing for the uppity-ups that somehow forces the belters and the drifters and the marines to face off in zero-g with thin pieces of base metal in their hands.

Not that chainswords are the final answer, but c'mon - we can broaden the horizons a bit, no?

 

[rinku]

Oh, the chainsword is the least of it, though GW's fascination with them goes back to before Cyberpunk, I can assure you. Plus I'm not really sure where the idea came up that a chainsaw was something good for carving up armour. A circular saw with an appropriate cutting edge, sure, but chainsaws are used for cutting up softer materials (i.e. wood).

CSC also has a full array of Eldar splinter weapons, Space Marine power weapons and Dark Edlar Wytch weapons. Now look, there is also a lot of good stuff in there, but IMHO there's just too much that's cringe-worthy or copied.

But that's just my opinions. Everyone else feel free to use whatever you want.

 

[Duroon]

Also keep in mind that high tech vacc suits *are* in effect clothing and would definitely not prevent having a flak jacket being added.

In the CSC they very specifically state that high tech vacc suits are not clothing and are not as comfortable as clothing. I believe the actual wording is that they are like wearing heavy clothing. Also they need these attachments like air bottles and the like that make them stand out as most definitely not clothing. Sure you could add a flak jacket to one but that's gonna be even more cumbersome.

 

[justacaveman]

Remember most of the equipment in the CSC is OPTIONAL (Some items are just reprints of stuff in the core rules.), if it doesn't suit your game don't use it.

And GW is unlikely to sue over stuff they copied from other sources.

BTW, Chainswords wouldn't have the same type of teeth as chainsaws, they are entirely different applications of the same basic technology. If you tried to cut cloth armor with a chainsaw it would jam the motor.

 

[justacaveman]

Traveller Battle Dress was inspired by the Powered Armor in Starship Troopers and the Lensman books etc..

There's nothing wrong with taking inspiration from works of fiction, you just don't try to claim it as your own idea.

Most everything in Traveller (And similar games.) originated in some sci-fi book that existed before there were RPG's.

As far as layering armour goes, I use the rules on page 132 of the CSC. However, the example given is incorrect. The penalty is -2 (-1 for the Torso Protector, and -1 for the limb armour.).

 

[Fovean]

Hm, guess I'll have to check out CSC after all... Back in my early Classic days we put in everything... lightsabers, vibroblades, the personal shields from the Dune movie... it was silly, but a lot of fun.

Melee is pretty rare IMTU these days, guns always seem to prevent such close quarters as Somebody points out above. But I like an occasional knife/fist fight for the PCs but one of them inevitably says 'Man, you'd think I'd have something better than a knife!' The drama of a simple Blade only goes so far so we're adding things as players come up with them, until one of us actually plunks down for CSC and we can see it for ourselves.

I don't allow armor stacking, except for Ablat, and Reflec as in the MGT core rules. I have to take a better look at it but the Vargr armor seems to be piecemeal suits rather than complete sets layered/stacked on top of one another.

 

[SCKnight14]

I did noticed that there were no gatling gauss weapons listed in the CSC. Is it possible to create such a weapon, or would it be too powerful or too flawed?

 

[rust]

I did noticed that there were no gatling gauss weapons listed in the CSC. Is it possible to create such a weapon, or would it be too powerful or too flawed?

With the already high auto rating of gauss weapons, I see no convincing
reason to design one with multiple barrels (provided this would make any
technical sense), this would only add bulk and weight.

 

[SCKnight14]

I did noticed that there were no gatling gauss weapons listed in the CSC. Is it possible to create such a weapon, or would it be too powerful or too flawed?

With the already high auto rating of gauss weapons, I see no convincing
reason to design one with multiple barrels (provided this would make any
technical sense), this would only add bulk and weight.

Yeah, when I think about it, a multi-barreled gauss weapon would be quite heavy.

 

[rinku]

Gauss weapons operate in a totally different way to guns using conventional rounds. They have no propellant gasses to manage and no cases to extract or eject. With a Gauss weapon the projectiles are shot out as fast as the feed mechanism can deliver them.

The main advantage of the gatling action is to increase feed rate since you have a chamber ready to accept a round more often than in a single chamber/barrel weapon.

You could have a multiple gauss weapon, but this would be more akin to multiple mount weapons (i.e. quad machine gun AA mounts). If you want one in game terms, multiply the cost and weight of a single weapon by the number of weapons in the mount, add 10% for extra mounting bits and sights, and increase the autofire rating. I'd suggest each extra weapon would add half of its autofire to the base weapon's. (YMMV)

From a practical point of view, whether multiple gauss weapons are worth considering depends on the base weapon's rate of fire. There would be some limit of how quickly a single gauss gun can cycle a round - if higher rates of fire are required, multiple weapons are a simple solution.